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Springfield M1A 308 Win, $1739
 Courtesy, Gun Tests |
The M1A came with three 10-round magazines, a comprehensive book on the M14, and the owner's manual. Though it didn't have the bayonet mount of the Fulton, we didn't miss it. However, some M14 accessories might require it for the dedicated enthusiast. This rifle didn't have quite the accuracy of the Fulton M14 but was probably sufficient for most uses. We particularly liked its price.  |
Classification:Long Guns
Category:Rifles
Model Name:M1A
Manufacturer:Springfield Armory
Model Number:
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In the world of 308 Win./7.62 NATO auto-loading rifles, the M14 and its look-alikes reign just about supreme. They have it all, looks, power, function, capacity, plus a great variety of stock and accessory configurations from wood to all manner of polymer that can convert an M14 or M1A into just about any configuration you might want, particularly if you have deep pockets. Gun Tests recently tested the Springfield Armory M1A, $1739.
We tested with three types of ball ammunition, the only type recommended in these firearms. It was Federal Gold Medal match, Magtech 150-grain ball from Brazil, and mixed lot of recovered ammunition purchased in bulk with headstamps from Israel, Italy, Belgium, and Canada, which we used unsorted. Here’s what we found.
Our test Springfield M1A came with three 10-round magazines, but no sling. However, the package included an owner’s manual, several brief publications about slam-fires, and the comprehensive Department of the Army Technical Manual on the "7.62 mm Rifle M14." One of the first things that caught our eye was the dark-stained walnut stock, which has always been, and still is, too fat for our taste. However, if it offends you, you can purchase a new stock with GI contour from Fulton Armory for about $150.
We thought this was a very good rifle, at what we consider to be a very good price. The M1A’s barrel is newly made, as apparently are many of the parts. The barrel and chamber are chrome lined. You can buy just as many accessories for this one as for any other M14 type. With the M1A you get an investment-cast receiver, but Springfield has sold a whole lot of M1As with a great success record. We can’t provide numbers as to how long any rifle will hold up, but our test inspection showed this to be a well-made and well-fitted rifle. However, when we worked the bolt vigorously on the Springfield, we noted it appeared to rattle a bit.
 Courtesy, Gun Tests |
The dark-stained stock needed some sanding, we thought, and also some work on its sights to make them easier to use. The M1A also had the stripper-clip guide hanging out over the ejection port. |
We liked the Springfield’s trigger. It had a 5.3-pound, very clean pull. Iron-sight accuracy was good enough for most uses. We had lots of trouble adjusting the rear sight to get our hits centered, and in fact were unable to rotate the windage knob in the forward direction unless we pressed on the elevation knob on the other side. We’re not sure the sight assembly was put together entirely correctly. We were able to make it work, and it held its adjustments, but the elevation clicks always seemed vague, and the windage was extremely stiff.
All functions operated perfectly, but we did notice an anomaly after all our shooting. The Springfield had acquired small bits of brass in the breech area of the action. Neither of the other two rifles had any at all. We don’t know the reason for all the bits of brass, but something is shaving the rounds as they go into or come out of the chamber. In a later specific test, the Springfield showed lots of brass particles after only five rounds.
The average shooter doesn’t buy too many rifles like this, and if you need one, we thought the Springfield might as well be the best example you can afford. You might be in for a bit of cleanup work to eliminate the brass shaving, or maybe some tweaking for accuracy, but stuff like that is part of the fun of rifle ownership.
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Reader Comments
I sure miss this old warhorse. I hated giving it up for the M-16 in Viet Nam and have noted that over the past (almost) 40 years that the "replacement" is still undergoing modifications and having to be fixed. Not so the M1/M14. What did we give up?
"What did we give up?"
Big Mickey - We gave up everything but weight. We gave up range, penetration, durability, reliability, terminal ballistics, and ease of maintenance.
I have no say about the weight advantage gained with the M16, because as a Navy sailor I didn't have to hump either weapon through Injun country, but men I respect have told me that it was a bad trade.
Gaviota
Gotta' echo BigMickey on Mr 14.
Like they say, "a rifleman's rifle."
GOT TWO,GLAD I DO,WIFE AND I ONLY HAVE THEM FOR FUN,HUNTING AND SELF PROTECTION AROUND OUR PROPERTY.
GOT TWO,GLAD I DO,WIFE AND I ONLY HAVE THEM FOR FUN,HUNTING AND SELF PROTECTION AROUND OUR PROPERTY.
I think that one of the best endorsements of the M1A is the commercial from Springfield Armory that says: "Bring Enough Gun!". In Vietnam, I did most of my fighting from helicopters, and I recognized early on that the M14 was a superior weapon to the M16, due to all of the factors discussed above. That being the case, I also liked the M14, because the helicopter door guns were M60s and when things got crunchy (as in shot down/hard landing) there was always a fair supply of 7.62mm ammo. Of course, it had to be delinked, but in a pinch, I found that the task of pulling rounds out of the links wasn't as difficult as is might seem.
I have responded to my undying love of the M14 by purchasing an M1A SOCOM 16, which continues to be my "go to rifle", even though I have a DPMS LR-308 7.62mm that I really like.
I bought my M1A used and when I checked the barrel it could of only had no more than 50 rounds thru it. I cleaned it up and went to the range near by. I shot 1.2 inches at 100 yards. Then I went to 200 yards and rested the beast on sand bags. I was shooting 1 inch just above zero. I am using IMI, LC and Federal and I was smiling all day. She is one fine rifle and I can see why our men in Nam hated to give her up I never served but God Bless all who did. If I did I would have been court martialed for not giving up my rifle. I have 4 AR15's in different configurations and working on a LAR DPMS 308 and I do not think that will EVER take away from the true and tested M14/M1a. Again God Bless to all who serves as I am gratefull.
Like a few other commentors, I was trained on the M14 and then 2 months before I shipped to Nam they handed me the M16 which my brigade dubbed the Mattel Toy. The M16 needed to be kept spotless to work properly and even then some of the early ammo jammed which was scary to say the least. I saw men from the 1st Infantry Division who still had M14's and when I asked them why, they said they shot 3 of their own guys with the M16 because of riccochets from heavy jungle foliage. Then I really started worrying. I just hope the weapons the boys in Afghanistan and Iraq are better than what we had.
Like a few other commentors, I was trained on the M14 and then 2 months before I shipped to Nam they handed me the M16 which my brigade dubbed the Mattel Toy. The M16 needed to be kept spotless to work properly and even then some of the early ammo jammed which was scary to say the least. I saw men from the 1st Infantry Division who still had M14's and when I asked them why, they said they shot 3 of their own guys with the M16 because of riccochets from heavy jungle foliage. Then I really started worrying. I just hope the weapons the boys in Afghanistan and Iraq are better than what we had.
I'd love to see an "all stainless" version.
Odd the comment about brass shavings as being part of the fun of rifle ownership. I find this sort of issue unacceptable.
RackEm - That's an interesting idea....
I'd like to know why this fine gun costs so darn much. Seems to me modern manufacturing ought to be able to produce a reliable and accurate version for way less than almost $2 grand. Am I alone in this thinking?
Hey Markbo, You and I,(and, I suspect, thousands more like us) would love to own one. Why does the M14 cost so much? The simple answer seems to be that there is a lack of competition. If gun makers were to start competing for the M14 market the way so many manufacturers have gone after the 1911 and AR-15 market, I would venture to say that the cost would be somewhere in the the $800-$1100. range.
Not taking anything away from the M14 which was a fine weapon especially at longer ranges. I liked my M16 which was lighter and had less recoil. And the M16 I was issued was very accurate. But for long range shots the M14 was better with its heavier bullet.
Markbo I too share your thoughts. I remember 12-15 yrs ago i could of bought an M1 Garand for 125.00/200.00 depending on condition and I bought my M1 carbine for 100.00 looking back i should of bought hundrends of both of them. Now it will set you back 1G/1.5G's for one in rough condition. From what my gunsmith tells me it's the anti-gunners and the lawyers(for the manufactures) that are driving up the price. Look at the new weapon that FN just brought out 3 grand for that one and I bet it will only go up.
pitdogg - I'd like to kindly suggest that either you were looking at extremely low-end quality M-1's or your "12-15 yrs ago" is a lot longer than you'd like to think!
Around 1983, Springfield Armory began production of the M-1 using GI parts with new barrels. The MSRP was somewhere over $600, and I was fortunate enough to pay $500. Garands were generally bringing comparable prices at that time. Garands purchased through the DCM in the late '80's were $165 plus shipping. Iver-Johnson M-1 Carbines were about $130 in the early '80's if I recall correctly. I can't remember the last time I saw any of those for a mere $200!
I also wish I'd bought more back then, but the appreciation isn't nearly as great we often remember it....
Love my SA M1A. It was the 1st firearm I paid over $1500 for (why so expensive? Because we'll pay that much!). A safe full of ARs,AK,SKS,Garand,etc. later and I still consider that M1A the best example of maximum civilian firepower.
Fired both during my career. Anything over 200 meters with the M-16 and you are asking to hit the wrong thing during crosswinds. Firing at concrete, M-14 reduced a cubic foot block to dust and M-16 it was still recognizable as a block after 50 shots each. As for brass shaving, none I fired ever did it, so $17.50 would be too much. Come on, no rattles and no brass shavings. Get your machining department on the ball. As for ammo preferences, American (Lake City)first, British, German, Belgian, Israeli. Stay away from Indonesian. It really sucks. The others work just fine in this old work horse, and unlike the Garand, it does not reduce your shoulder to a swollen, bruise mess. In the 1970s, a Springfield M1A sold for $400. Where have all the flowers gone? $1700 for a poorly machined rifle?
As I come back to read more I see some people are recalling the years where they were buying DCM rifles to include the M1 Garand and 30 Carbine. My dad served in the Marines who passed away Jan 20 2011, God Bless dad, I was smart enough to purchase some DCM M1 and Carbines because my dad told me now or never. I have 14 M1 Garands and 4 Carbines, 2 1903 Springfields and these are all in excellant shape. I am glad I did as I have some very early, and I mean early serial numbers made in 1939, 1941 etc. I even was lucky to get a sniper M1.I have some HR's,but they were made after Germany and Japan surrendered. They shoot great but the early ones I do not shoot as they are collectors. Best rifle I ever shot besides the M1A.
Molon - impressive collection! There's nothing wrong with H&R Garands made after WWII. I'm pretty sure H&R only made them during the Korean War, but you probably know that already!
I've heard that when the government discontinued the M-1 Carbine, some servicemen were bought them real cheap from Uncle Sam.
Like Gaviota, Big Micky, Canovack,and CrazyMike, I to have a few stories about the M14 and the M16. When I was In Basic we had the M14 to train with, some complained about the weight but for me just comming off the ranch and useing good old 30-06 for hunting ( In fact my first deer rifle that was really mind, not grandpas,dads or big brothers, was a good lod fashion 303 british that kicked like a mule) so the m14 was nothing really I fire expert with it and really liked it.The just before going to Nam ( Had to wait to turn 18) was handed the M16, sited in and fire expert again but the Top Sarg saw the look on my face and ask what was wrong. So I told him M16 round was to lite. Well after some discustion back and forth He had a Nice sized bush put in front of a target, first I fire the M14 and sure nuff right through the bush and target down, then the M16 first round ricashaed and 4 mags latter and 4 jams needing clean the target went down. I like a dummy told Top all it was good for trimming bushes. Dummy you ask? well when I turned around there was a nice 2nd lewy and I was damn luky not to get a Articale 15 When I got to Nam tried to get the M14 but no go they said I was to small.Ended Up a Tunnel Rat. God Bless America nd Our Troops Past, Present and Future Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry Get the US out of the UN and the UN out of the US
PVB my gunsmith got shipping containers full of M1's and carbines shipped back from other country's that our government gave them on the lend/lease program. He re-barreled and rebuilt them for sale by Springfield and Sarco and other companies. His payment for his work was lots and lots of M1's and carbines so naturally he picked the best for his client's
Plus it didn't hurt that his mom babysat me as a young child I'm 46 now :)
pitdogg - maybe we'll get lucky and the Korean rifles will be allowed back in, and then we can find some more deals like that! Not gonna hold my breath though....
"In the world of 308 Win./7.62 NATO auto-loading rifles, the M14 and its look-alikes reign just about supreme." I can not disagree more. Is it a fine rifle? Yes. Is it WAY ovper priced? Yes. I will stick with the DSA clone of the FN-FAL. Less expensive real prices in the gun shops and used by 90 countires across the globe and carried by my nephew in the sandbox. Accuracy is on par with the M1 especially if one follows the barrel break-in procedures recommended by DSA. Mounting scopes seems to be a bit easier and maintenance I find to be much eiaser as well especially considering one does not have to be careful around a pretty walnut stock. Does the M1 deserve our respect? Yes. Will it be the one to "reign supreme"...not in this world.
PVB, I wish I was at the range with you as I can prove that the M1a is much better built and better accuracy at 500 plus meters. I have 3 M1a's in different configurations as well as M1 Garands and 30 Carbines and find them to me some of the finest rifles in combat. Some people say rifles like the AK 47 are better but remeber this, distance fighting is Rule. I know the AK 47 has made a name around this worls but our American Rifles have proved themselves day after day in combat and at the ranges. I have one FN FAL that is a fine rifle but is not up to the M1a at longer distances. I would challege anyone with a FN FAL to shoot better against the M1a. Do not get me wrong, the FN FAL feels good to the hands, is reliable once you get the gas adjusted, it has the sand grooves in the bolt carrier and shoots great but not when diatnce counts. I have spent years loading brass for my M1a and the FN FAL and both shoot great but the M1a is the leader at 500 plus meters hands down. My load is:Bullet: 168 hollow point boat tail Powder: 42 grains IMR 4895 Velocity = 2550 +/- 30 fps @ 78 ft. Pressure = 50,000 psi max average. Accuracy = Carton - 3.5" mean radius @ 600 yards This is benched. The FN FAL never came close.
Molon - you're getting me confused with IanFrog! ;p I like the FAL, but put my money on the M-1A or M-1, just as you do. I understand what Ian says about cost, but it's already been said above - supply and demand. The M-1A's bring the price because we are paying it. Funny though, I guess Ian got a really good deal, because FAL variants, including the DSA's have been going for at least as much as M-1A's when I've seen them.
So you have owned ONE FAL? I have owned eleven in my lifetime and am aurrounded by many who also own them. The worse one of the bunch shoots around 2.75 MOA while my Nephew's and my own current rifle shoot around 1.5 MOA with match ammunition with a scope. 500 yards...Not too may people I know even have someplace to shoot that far. In the practical real world If I need to take a shot that far I will use my one of my bolt rifles. Our rifles are not surplus fodder coming from the third world. They are all new and have been broken in according the DSA's recommendations. I will take the enormous savings over an M1 and put it into a fine bolt rifle or scope for shots at that distance. I respect your opinion but you should try out some of DSA's new products before making claims based on one rifle.
OK PVP, I did not say that I have only owned one. I am in the State of Ca and we were forced to register our FN FAL's as (Assault Weapons) So chose to sell the other 2 to my friend in another state. I have AR 15's, LAR 308 in 5 different configurations from the 223 to the 458. I built them and my FN FAL out of top of the line components. M1 Garand which I put on a new match barrel and smoothed the action and extractor was polished. It shoots 800 meters right around 2.8 MOA with match grade loads that I load myself. My FN FAL is a good rifle but it can never shoot 800 meters as well as the Garand or the M1a even on a good day. Do not get me wrong, the rifle feels good shoots good but can never shoot better than either of the rifles I have. Now all of the AR’s I have I built myself. The FN FAL I built myself and barreled it myself. The rifles are great combat rifles but I have never seen one used in serious competition shooting. Period ,case closed.
PVB, Oh by the way, I was using match grade peep sights not scoped as it is not allowed in the competition so try not using the peeps on your FN FAL and see what happens. I am in the process of attaching a scope to my M1a and I am thinking that the MOA will improve somewhat.
PVB, Oh by the way, I was using match grade peep sights not scoped as it is not allowed in the competition so try not using the peeps on your FN FAL and see what happens. I am in the process of attaching a scope to my M1a and I am thinking that the MOA will improve somewhat.
Enough said all and to all who served, thank you and God Bless America. Tell the UN to pound sand and to mind their own business. Keep your rifles clean and at ready. My kimber 45 and her sister Pro Carry II stand at ready 24/7 365. Amen
Hey Ian - I like the FAL. I just don't understand why you say it's such a great savings over an M-1 or M-1A. The MSRP is really pretty close, and if you buy an M-1A with a fiberglass stock, the M-1A is less expensive.
Weeellll, We all have talk about how good or crapy the M16 ,M14, and a few others are, but My Faverite peace for being a godd brush clearing and long range shooter, in fact makes a good chain saw on the bigger stuff, and the best of them all by far is the IMO best Iever fired is the GOOD OLD FASHION MA-DUCE. GOD BLESS THE .50. I cheat, so be it.
God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future.
Keeping to My Oath Loacked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry.
Get the US Out of the UN and the UN out of the US.
I'll see your ma duece and raise you a minigun... "GE- We Bring Good Things To Life!"
I point out the price differneces in our local gun shops. The least expensive FAL offering from DSA is over $300.00 cheaper than the equivilant M1. Don't get me wrong. I have infinite respect for the M1 but calling it the M1 the one that reigns supreme...oh no. Look to Les Baer for that one...1/2 MOA in a battlefield .308 rifle is supreme...but costly. MSRP means nothing when you are standing in front of the cash register.
Holy moley. Five hundred yards? Eight hundred yards? I can barely see a man-sized target at THREE hundred yards. You guys are way out of my league. My Springfield M1 Garand and DSA FN-FAL are fine rifles, but if I attempted a target at half a mile away with ANY rifle, all I'd be doing is poking holes in the dirt.
They do hip replacements, knee replacements, and transplants of nearly every internal organ except the spleen, but until they come up with eyeball replacements, I'll have to stay down here in the minor leagues.
Gaviota
I had one exactly like the one you tested in my hands yesterday. My wife says buy it but the cost is high. I'm out of your league with knowledge and never had to serve. When I graduated in 72 Vietnam was winding down and I went to college. I heard from one of my gun store buddies that there would have been a lot more older rifles available but TPTB destroyed them all. I guess to protect us from ourselves. After reading the above comments I'm not sure where to put my money. The wife says to buy it but...........What to do???
Bill C, it appears that you have the same problem with your wife that I have with mine. She keeps encouraging me to attend gun shows to buy more pieces. This is certainly a problem that I am happy to have, so perhaps you might want to adopt the same attitude. Where things get a bit dicey is when I announce the need for another safe. It's not the money; it's the space. We are at the point of considering building an addition on to the house to accommodate all of the safes and firearms.....:-).
Ian - gotcha. I just read the article on the Les Baer .308 - yeah, if I had the coin! ;)
Gav - lol! Seriously though, the eyes get worse. I always wondered why the Marine Corps waived rifle qualification past a certain rank or age. Now I know - it had nothing to do with RHIP or no longer needing a rifle in your billet - it's because you can't even see the target anymore! Glasses may help, but there's nothing you can do about being able to make out which blur you are trying to shoot at beyond a couple hundred yards. I strongly suspect that most people who are talking about their long range accuracy are using optics, especially if they are over 40....
Bill C - that's easy: buy one of each!!!
My son just got a national match SA M1A, and it has the brass shaving problem. It looks to me like the bolt and extractor are the problems. Extremely sharp corners on both need to be smoothed out. Other than that, the rifle runs like a top. Shot 2" groups with the factory sights at 100, on the first day. I am sure that we will improve, but now the owner of this rifle is in Guam, and will probably be in Japan within hours. I promised him I would not tinker with the rifle until he returns.
Yesterday, once again I traveled the 90 minutes to one of my favorite stores to hold one of these guys. Had the money with me but I just couldn't do it. Oh, it would have been nice but I guess I'll get silver instead.
@bevmach - I'm guessing he won't be upset if you just sit there and hold it. Depends what that word "tinker" means......
Hi Bill C, Yeah, he doesn't mind the holding part, it's the drooling and fondling he doesn't like. My son had his on order for 7 months, and had told the gun shop in Charleston SC to cancel, since he got his orders after completing Nuke School for the Navy. On his way out of town - literally- the gun store called him on his cell and told him his gun had come in. He got off of I-26 and picked it up.
This thing is a beauty. I own a machine shop, and I have a great appreciation for the design of the M14 receiver. The only general complaint that I have ever heard about this weapon is the weight. I had a friend that carried one in Viet Nam, and he talked about going on patrol with a pack tha weighed 120 pounds. When I asked what he was carrying that was so heavy, he said "Bullets"!
I have both an M1 Garand Springfield and an M1A. The Garand does not "reduce my shoulder to a battered bruised mess" - please. My M1A does not shave brass and if I had to keep only 2 long guns, the M1A would be one of them. I have never had a problem with it. I paid 1200 for it 3 years ago, with camo stock, standard version, and it shoots 1 1/2" groups with open sights @ 100 yds, 1 1/4" with a 2-7 bushnell 3200 scope.
I was wondering about that whole battered mess thing myself. Maybe if you used it stupidly, there became a Gunnery Sergeant attached to the other end and THEN your shoulder became a battered mess! Unless, of course, you have one converted into .338 or .458 Win Mag....
I have always, and will always love the M1A/M14. I served in Beirut in 1983 and our firefights were typically at long range, not a specialty of the M16. I always found myself wanting a better rifle. At one time I owned a Federal Ordnance M14SA but it was not a well built rifle and was very inaccurate. It was still a ton of fun to shoot. I traded it off planning to get an M1A down the road, but the M1A has become crazy expensive. I had to reconsider and decided to purchase a DPMS LR-308. At almost half the price of a standard M1A, the decision was not as difficult as I thought it would be. On top of that, the AR-10 platform has a slight accuracy advantage over the M14 platform which is always my bottom line. The AR-10 is not as visually pleasing as the M1A, but it is still a tough looking rifle. Like I said, I still love the M1A/M14 and always will, but I have to be practical when it comes to making purchases. The $800 that I saved by buying the AR-10 can buy a lot of reloading supplies to feed it.
I have to agree with CplSki..... After I purchased my M1A SOCOM16, I allowed my nostalgia for the AR platform to grab hold of me, and I bought a DPMS LR308. Both are great pieces, and I would take either one to battle if the need were to arise. I think that as a general purpose rifle caliber the 7.62x51/.308 is a pretty good choice. In fact, I went bananas recently and took a step backward by purchasing a turn bolt .308. It's the new Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. It is light, short, and very handy. I haven't put it to any major tests yet, but if it does all that I think it will, I'll be pretty happy with it.
Canovack - Since seeing it in American Rifleman I've been slobbering over that Ruger! I know it's a thread hijack, but I really want to know how it impresses you after you get some range time.
Well, Dragonchow, my old retired life has stepped up a pace, due to my mother-in-law being hospitalized for the umpteenth time. That said, I haven't put any rounds down range, but just hefting the piece, and working the action tells me that this is one piece that I will enjoy. It is short, light, and very easy to handle. I like the integration of the tactical aspects of the detachable magazine, the short action, the "birdcage" suppressor, and the selection of spacers to taylor the length of pull to one's own specification.
In fact, I have been playing with it to determine what length of pull I want to try. Now this will sound a bit odd, but I have tried laying the Ruger alongside my Springfield SOCOM16 and my DPMS LR308 to determine what length of pull most approximates those two rifles. I'd guess that the final determination will be made when I finally can see my way clear to get some range time with this little gem. Right now, though, just handling it.....and playing with it.....tells me that Ruger took the thoughts of Jeff Cooper and put them into a pretty neat little package.
Great, more fire for my desire! I see a slaughtered piggy bank in my near future! Hope you find yourself some range time soon. Thanks, Canovack!
Hey Canovack my friend, what do you think of the Ruer mini tirty in 7.62x39? I have been thinking of it instead of the more expencive 308's. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future.
Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry.
Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Well, bear1, it's funny you should mention the Mini-30. Quite a few years ago, I got interested in the Ruger Mini-14/Ranch Rifle, but I was not at all desirous of 5.56x45/.223 as a general purpose cartridge. I had some AK and SKS pieces, and I liked the 7.62x39 round considerably more than the 5.56/.223, so I found a Mini-30, attractively priced, at a gun show and brought it home. I restocked it with a Butler Creek composition stock in order to de-emphasize that ugly black plastic shield that Ruger put on the rifle to keep people's fingers out of contact with the operating rod. I also like flash suppressors, so I installed a combination brake/suppressor on the piece. Ruger, as always, supplied a set of their proprietary scope rings, and I tried a Bushnell variable for a while, but I ended up removing it. I like aperture rear sights, so now I am using the original sights in much the same manner that I use the aperture sights on my other tactical rifles.
According to Gun Digest, the Mini-30 MSRP is $921.00, which means you should be able to find one for around $650.....maybe less. The thing I like about the Mini-30 is that it is essentially a small scale M-14/M1A. Of course the 7.62x39 won't hold a candle to the 7.62x51/.308 on range and accuracy, but the Mini-30 is a great little piece.
Unfortunately I have never seen any Mini-30 (just like the Mini 14) that were at all accurate. Cute little guns, but not good for much. I have an AR-10T that can sling 168 gr bullets waaaay out yonder with incredible accuracy. BUT... it is heavy, ungainly and not good looking unless ARs are your thing. I don't know that I will ever have an M14/M1A just because of the cost, but maybe one day someone will make one that is both accurate and affordable. One can always wish!
Markbo - where you are may make a difference, but M-1A's seem to have fallen back down to pre-Obama pricing. Yeah, that's still expensive, but you do get what you pay for...
I don't know where you are at PVB, but I live in Wyoming and M1As haven't come down at all. A standard M1A is $1800 and Wyoming is definitely a gun friendly and business friendly state. If I could get one for $1200 again, I would. If you know of a place to get one for that, please pass along the good word.
Here in Central Texas, our Quantico Tactical Supply store has M1A SOCOM16s. If you are an active or retired military type, they will give you a substantial discount. In October 2009 I was able to get a SOCOM16 for $1484.00 instead of the $1895.00 asking price. It doesn't hurt to ask if any business will give you a discount based on your military service or even if you are an old guy looking for the senior discount.
Ski - I doubt you'll ever see them for $1200 again! I think dealer cost on a base model is about there. In 2007, they (base M-1A, Scout, or SOCOM 16) were running about $1350 - $1400. I paid about that in 2008, just before Obamamania. Once the rush started, they were goni for $1700, and stayed there for a while. At recent gun shows, I've seen them down to about $1450. I'm sure cash, polite discussion, and wearing a USMC hat will help me get a break with the right dealers. I'd keep your eyes open on GunBroker and Davidson's, since you can check them on-line as much as you want. I'm near Philthadelphia, so by the time you buy one from a dealer out here, ship it, and pay the transfer, you probably could do almost as well with the local dealer you'll go back to when you want or need help. Also, a fiberglass stock will probably save you about $75-100. Of course, the biggest issue is can the dealer get one at all!
Canovack & I have touted the merits of the SOCOM and Scout versions repeatedly on this forum. I'd give serious consideration to one of the shorties, unless you are needing serious long-range capability.
Did you say somewhere else you were in Beirut?
Semper Fi
Roger that. I was in Beirut with BLT 1/8, 24th MAU from May - Nov 1983. I hang around with my local gun dealer, who is a friend, and he gets some hellacious deals sometimes, but he rarely gets any M1As. I prefer the long barrels because I am a long range enthusiast (perhaps because of my experience in Beirut), and although accurate, short barrels cost velocity. My Savage Mod. 10FP .308 shoots under 1/4 MOA and I guess I'm kinda spoiled by that, but I strive for accuracy at range with all my rifles. I'm gonna put a free-float tube on my AR-10 because the best groups I have been able to produce so far have been about 1 MOA. Most people would be happy or even ecstatic about that, but I'm obsessed you might say. I just like to know that when I squeeze that trigger, that bullet is going exactly where I mean it to go. If I find the opportunity, I'm still interested in an M14/M1A just because I do love them. In the meantime, my AR-10 will be my battle rifle and it's not a bad one... just a lot harder to clean than an M1A and not as sexy. Semper Fi
I was in 1/8 from 85-88.
I agree about cleaning AR's. A buddy bought one a few years back, and I was getting nostalgic - until I cleaned it for him...
Hope you taught him to clean it for himself. I just cleaned my AR-10 after shooting quite a bit last night... took me an hour and a half to make it respectable. Of course I shot about 80 rounds yesterday so I had it coming. What company were you with in 1/8? I should clarify that I was with amtracs and my platoon was assigned to 1/8, but I'm willing to bet that there were still some guys around 1/8 when you were there that had been in Beirut. We went over on the USS Harlan County (LST) and back with Alpha Company. While we were ashore, 1/8 had a rotation of line companies to 3 different areas: south 1/2 of the airport, north 1/2 of the airport, and the Lebanese Scientific University on the Green Line. H&S Co. with TOWs, motor-T, etc., were up at BLT HQ and got nearly wiped out by the bombing. We spent time with A,B,and C Co. at different times on the south 1/2 of the airport where our positions were. I'm willing to bet that I might know some of some of the guys you might have known in 1/8. Now I'm getting nostalgic... Semper Fi Ski
I reported to Alpha Company in June '85. A lot of the "Root" guys were still there. We did an Okinawa pump in '86 and Med in '88.
My friend knows how to clean an AR - he was a cannon-cocker, but has enough M-16 expertise. We were cleaning a lot of stuff; for some reason, I picked the AR...
...and I'll bet you had it field stripped in 12 seconds flat. Once a Marine...
Ooh Rah!
The article complained that the safety went inside of the trigger guard when engaged and that there was too much wood on the stock. Those were rather "odd" complaints by the author of the article since the safety tab is "supposed" to enter the trigger guard just as they do on my three WWII built M1 Garands and the M-14s that we had in the Navy. The excess wood is standard mil-spec so that there will be provision for sanding and finishing in the future -- again per mil-spec. If I did not know any better, I would think that somebody on this forum is working for Fulton Armory and doing their level best to downgrade Springfield Armory. Sorry -- didn't work -- try again.
Here's a little update concerning the discussion we had about the Ruger Mini-30. As I stated above, I have been using the original metallic sights on my rifle. I'm not really impressed with the rear aperture sight on the gun.....It just seemed sort of flimsy to me. I looked around the web, and I found that Williams Gun Sight has several pretty nice after-market sights for a variety of pieces. I had one of their sights on one of my SKS and another on one of my AK-47s. They were OK, so I gave Williams a try at a rear sight for my Mini-30. I was quite pleased with what they sent me. It is more substantial than the original, and it seems to be pretty well made. It looks better on the rifle than the original, and the aperture is removable, so if one would like a ghost-ring, I'd guess it could serve the purpose.
I was in MACS 5, 61 to 65. I went through boot camp with the M1 and carried the M14 the other 3 1/2 years I was in. I love the M1 and the M14, but I did just turn 70 and the 308's are starting to hurt a bit. I've still got an M14 and a PTR 91 but I shoot AR15s in 6x45, 6.8SPC and 300blk. I reload for all of them. I can't get the accuracy out of an M14 that I can out of a AR in my calibers. your talking a little over a minute of angle with your .308's. I'm talking very much sub. minute of angle. yes, I'm on a bench, but I know what these rifles will do, and of course the question is can I do it. under 200 yards I think I can. but, yes, My first love is an M1 and second is an M-14. after that, my AR in 6.8spc. My brother has an AR 10 in .308 and I think that It's shoots a slightly sub. minute of angle. and yes, that's with match grade reloads, What are match grade REloads? new brass, good bullets and powder measured out to the same weight. I do have a mini 14 in .223. it's a cute toy. but I like it. I've never shot it pass fifty yards, but it's shot every thing I run through it. it's not for sale either.
Love these comments, I have pined for an m14 all my adult life, I must add however that today's finely tuned ARs are a smashing success, compared to the original models, that went through the trial of fire-combat, and saw significant improvements- within its limitation, superb accuracy, accessories, accessories.... Still can't afford the MIA1
Love these comments, I have pined for an m14 all my adult life, I must add however that today's finely tuned ARs are a smashing success, compared to the original models, that went through the trial of fire-combat, and saw significant improvements- within its limitation, superb accuracy, accessories, accessories.... Still can't afford the MIA1
Truth be told, I trained on it, deployed to RVN with it and HATED it! I have both an AR and a SOCOM-16. I like the SOCOM better than the full size battle rifle but for putting rounds downrange, the M-16/AR-15 platform does the job. If you're in a long range gun fight, that's one thing. But for shooting two legged critters. The AR is enough. Remember: The first guy to get a hit almost always wins. I don't care if I kill him on the first hit. I'm content to let him bleed out with a teeny little .22 hole in the front and shrapnel scattered around his body.
I am assuming, ol Red, that you trained with an M-14 and took it to Vietnam. Prior to my trip to Vietnam, I had trained and qualified on both the M-14 and M-16. I did a short stint in Alaska, where I became a fan of .308 for hunting, and when I was curtailed out of Alaska to go to Vietnam, I had the opposite experience to yours. I was issued an M-16, with which I quickly qualified in the 4th Inf Div Replacement Detachment, but since most of my time was spent in helicopters flying hunter-killer missions and directing artillery and air strikes, I went back to the M-14, since I didn't have to carry it, and it really could reach out and touch guys. Finally, though, I ditched the M-14 for an M-1911 and an M-79 grenade launcher. I had some pretty good success with the M-79.
it sounds nice, i am in canada, there are a lot of things that you can get in the states that we can't get in canada, we do have a few, very few options, i will be getting one or two norinco m305 with a forged receiver for 450 dollars each. i hope that they are as good as this rifle.
Hi cornion..... I have a lot of good memories of hunting and fishing trips in Canada.....back when things were different there. I hope you guys get your liberties back soon. I have a number of Canadian friends from my days in the US Army, when I worked with the Canadian Forces on joint combined activities.
Norinco has produced and marketed some pretty nice firearms, and some have been of pretty high quality. I can recall some years back that Norinco made a nice copy of the M1A, and it sold for a few hundred dollars less than the model from Springfield. I don't know about its availability now. I have a Springfield SOCOM 16, and it is a magnificent piece of the gun makers' art.
Now, back to Norinco..... I also have in my collection a Norinco copy of the Winchester M-97 shotgun, and it is a very nice piece. I also have a Norinco copy of the Remington M-870, and it too is a nice piece. Lastly, I have a Norinco SxS double barrelled shotgun with "mule ear" hammers, and it is a real sweetheart. Of course, back when Norinco AK-47 and SKS rifles were dirt cheap, I purchased some of them, and they have proven to be good serviceable arms.
I can't say as I am familiar with a Norinco M-305, unless it is also known as something else.
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