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Louisville Church and Guns

Louisville Church and Guns: Weapons O.K. at Service


June 30, 2009

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Time magazine did a pretty even-handed job of covering the Sunday, June 28, 2009, "bring your gun to church event" at Louisville's New Bethel-Assemblies of God church. Here are the first two paragraphs:

At 4:55 p.m, five minutes before New Bethel Church's highly publicized "open-carry service" was set to begin Saturday evening, Lynne Smith walked into the sanctuary with her husband and two friends and took a seat in the front row. Asked what weapon she had with her, Smith had to stop and think about which gun she'd brought but finally said it was a Beretta .25 automatic. Her husband, Michael Houston, wore a Browning .380 in a holster. Their friends, Ted and Barbara Grant, were also carrying weapons. Barbara, wearing a NYPD baseball cap, had a Ruger .38 revolver, while Ted, who wore a ball cap with the National Rifle Association logo on the side and "Silver Bullet Brigade" on the front, had a Taurus .40 caliber automatic.

The congregating arsenal was all perfectly legal as well as perfectly acceptable to the leaders of New Bethel, an Assemblies of God church in Louisville, Kentucky, that invited people to bring their unloaded guns to this first-ever event.

Time magazine

The Associated Press reported it this way:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. - A gun-toting Kentucky pastor says it's OK to bring weapons to church — at least for one day.

Ken Pagano asked his flock to bring their unloaded handguns — in holsters — to New Bethel Church in Louisville for a celebration of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Consitution that guarantees the right to bear arms.

AP

Then there's Richard Aborn, a crazy Brady Campaign former official who posted a pile of crap on Huffington Post, then had his head handed to him by commentors:

Did you see the story in today's New York Times about a pastor who is holding a "bring your gun to church day"? Outrageous. But the real thrust of the article was the growing power of the National Rifle Association, which the article noted is "widely considered the country's most powerful lobby."

I know something about the mythical "power" of the NRA. I took them on -- and beat them -- twice in the 1990s as the president of Jim and Sarah Brady's Handgun Control, Inc (now the Brady Campaign). With a lot of hard work and organizing, we passed the Brady Bill, which requires background checks before someone can buy a handgun, and the assault weapons ban (which has now lapsed).

Huffpost

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Reader Comments

So the 2nd Amendment suggests we carry firearms unloaded? I'm not sure I would feel I was fully recognizing the 2nd amendment if I were to carry an unloaded weapon.

One of the many reasons I no longer attend church. Too many sheep, not enough shepherds.

Gaviota

Carry concealed loaded, legal. Don't advertise, brandish or make a special day or event of it. It's for self defense not show and tell. As for church, there's only one Shepherd and He's there for all the sheep, armed or not. Praise God and pass the ammunition!

Right on, Mark.

To ask anyone who had a pistol to bring them unloaded in shear insanity. What a joke for those of us who uphold the 2nd Amendment seriously. With the amount of killings in churches in the past 5 years, carrying an unloaded gun to church and then making it public, is asking for problems from those who dislike Christianity in general, or want to make a point.

If the pastor is really serious about carrying during a church service, have just a few that are trained and no one would need to know about it period.

Mark hit it right on the head, so I will not comment more.

Tom

I carry concealed every time I attend. Loaded. I do not need the priests' permission to exercise a Constitutional Right.

Front Sight - www.frontsight.com - is offering five for the price of one lifetime memberships for members of congregations that want to receive the best training available and carry their loaded firearms to church. Secondly, I agree with previous comments that it was not the wisest choice to ask a congregation to bring unloaded handguns to church. I can only think the pastor was trying to head off the attack he would have received from the mass media. I can't believe those folks actually brought unloaded weapons to church.

Idiots carry unloaded guns. Correct me if I'm wrong, however legal implications for concealed carry are the same if your weapon is loaded or not, so why carry unloaded. The will was there to send the right message, however they went about it wrong by being politically correct.

I'm inclined to state the fact that minds of many shepards are better than one and this story proves it. My opinion may be somewhat biased because I have no desire to be part of any religious group. There are many paths to God. I chose a personal path that isn't influenced by a book that was written by man.

John 14:6-In the words of Jesus, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." There is only one way to the Father.

We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. Your soul can learn in a large group where the message can in some cases, be mis-interpreted or you can enjoy an individual journey. Men have dificulty interpreting a document that was written in the 18th century. How can we expect them to interpret a book that Moses started writing in 1410 BC?

With all due deference to your faith, John B, this blog is about the rights of Man, not the words of Jesus. Which, by the way, He didn't actually write down. We don't really know if the reporters 2000 years ago were any better than the abysmal ones we have today, but as my education included a serious study of history, I would suspect NOT.

I am therefore content with the concept of God as The Word, and not as part of a confusing, contradictory, ambiguous, antiquated, and thoroughly primitive collection of dogma, doctrines, rituals, and ceremonies that pass for religious expression today. It appears to me that the Word which is God completely approves of men who treat other men with justice, respect, compassion, honor, dignity, and charity, and disapproves of men who desire to rule, dictate, and deny freedom and liberty to others. Unfortunately, my experience includes dealing with pastors of the latter stripe, so I reluctantly had to part ways with arrogant, exclusive, dogma-stricken "church leaders" who hated the thought of parishioners who liked to think for themselves and bring their loaded guns to church, and go find God on my own. Again, no offense, but I am uncomfortable with quotations from the Bible. Too many people who are unable to think have used rote-memorized Bible verses to beat me about the head and shoulder for not being a mind-numbed Bible-parroting robot.

Thanks anyway.

Gaviota

Hey, I thought we were talking about guns...

Big surprise, an article dealing with guns in church attracted people who attend church, or use to. The blog took a turn when the "many paths to God" comment was made. I'm with John B, and countless others on this one. We are all guranteed eternal life somewhere, but there is only one path to God. Can't expect a Christian worth his salt to not jump on that one. The reason this story developed is the fact that some of us expect attacks on Christians, and carrying a gun even in church, is making sense to more people every day. There are those in this world, and even in this country who have strong feelings of hatred for Christians, some would have us eliminated if they could. Make no mistake, they are our enemy, we refer to them as "anti-Christ". As for "dogma-stricken church leaders" I don't need their approval or permission to carry a gun or think for myself, I'm in Church to visit with, and pay respect to their boss. Hope you come back around Lee, we ain't all bad.

What is it with Louisville churches? Does anyone remember Sen. Bill Frist's (R-TN) April 2005 televised speech from the pulpit of Highview Baptist Church in Louisville. That little stunt was viewed by many folks as an attempt to mix politics and religion and may have contributed to the near-demise of the GOP.

Bring 'um "unloaded" huh??? Kind of like having a condom with the business end cut off....don't ya think??

Mark, Many paths to God refers to the life paths of each individual. There are many paths leading to one door. Rigid thinking allows you to believe there is only one path. Open your eyes and see the larger picture. Look out the front door. Oh, dang. You probably have a sidewalk leading to the front door and expect everyone to stay on the sidewalk. I do not have a sidewalk leading to my front door, I assume visitors would prefer to chose the path they're willing to take without any influence from me.

The way to God can only be found through His Son who died on a cross as a sacrifice for our salvation. Many paths like Buddha, Krisna, Mohammed, Wickens and the like, will not lead to God. God gave us free choice, His Son's advice concerning that choice was to take a partcular path or be lost forever. Guess you could say there are many paths to two different doors, both have eternal life waiting on the other side, one is a good place one is not. At the end of the "path", if you don't know Christ and believe what the Bible (yes, written by man, but divinely inspired by God) said he did for us, eternal life in Hell is all that awaits. Sorry, but the sacred cow is full of bull. What He said is true, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

Interesting discussion. More words of Jesus in Matt. 7:13 "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad and it's gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult and only a few ever find it." Very simple concept-you either believe the Bible or not, there is no in between. For the record-I'm a 23 year retired veteran and have a safe full of guns. No question about who I vote for or which party I support.

SOME ,CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE, BECAUSE IT IS DIVINELY WRITTEN . I KNOW OF NO BOOK THAT HAS LASTED FOR 2000 YRS. DO NOT BE WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES. AND I CARRY A GUN TO CHURCH GOOD FOR YOU JB

I have no disrespect for anyone's spiritual faith. I simply request that others refrain from telling me how to express mine. People who tell me that there is only one way to know, approach, or serve God make my trigger finger itch. I actually read on another blog the posts of a man who, after the church shooting in Colorado where the woman shot and killed an insane mass murderer, claimed that she was going to hell because no true Christian would ever carry a gun into a house of worship, since God protects his own. I asked him why He didn't protect the two teenage girls who were killed, but he didn't answer me.

I had to go take my blood pressure meds. I can't even begin to address that kind of twisted thinking.

The subject of why this church invited their congregation to carry an unloaded gun to church is a very important subject. Look at the same attitude on college campuses where you don't have the right to defend yourself even if you are of age and have a CCW.

We have kind of strayed off of the subject although the other is important, perhaps not for this post.

Tom

Butt out Tom, your making my trigger finger itch... just kidding, blessed are the peacemakers or was that peacekeepers (Colt ha ha). Lee I'm not telling you how to do anything just saying what I believe. Guess that fella from the other blog would have me going to hell too. I go to church with a 45 (lightweight commander) on my hip and a 38 on my ankle (nobody knows but me, my wife and God), but I'm guessing he'd be thanking God for my intervention if I stopped a maniac from shooting him in church or Wal Mart for that matter. The anti gun folks change their ways when their the ones getting shot at and in need of some defense. I certainly didn't mean any disrespect for your faith, but I do hope your not following a sacred cow! But if you are that's certainly your business and I have no business saying it's wrong - but really, cows are for eating not worshipping! Just kidding... sorta.

I think religion provides a good moral compass for people. This is why liberals are so hard pressed to destroy religion and discredit christians, they do not want to be reminded of morals.

Well, I assume some people need a group to establish guide lines for them. I thought parental guidance actually addressed right from wrong. Whatever works, I guess...

Wonderfull testaments... hope some of the boneheads in the White House, Congress and Senate read Gun Reports!

In God We Trust.... And believe me, He will have the last word, and it shall be good!

"parental guidance actually addressed right from wrong" Yep, but most parents prefer wrong over right and the kids follow suit, the prisons are over flowing with proof. Isaiah 1: 4 "Ah, sinful nation, a people loaded with guilt, a brood of evil doers, children given to corruption! They have forsaken the Lord; they have spurned the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on him." Which is why we carry concealed (even in church - staying on topic), most of today's teens have never opened a Bible (great parenting) but they idolize the likes of Michael Jackson, most (not all) have never pondered Jesus's sacrifice but will actually weep over a rock star's passing - and see nothing wrong. The majority of parents and children alike, idolize rock stars, basketball and football stars, movie stars and successful criminals of any sort. Like I said early on in this chat, Praise God and pass the ammunition, we're crawling with creeps that have no interest in changing their evil ways.

Thanks Mark for your insight and we know it's going to get worse. Good reason to carry 24/7 and if something does happen you'll wish that you were carrying something bigger.


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