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Gun Reports - News

Pennsylvania Pro-Open-Carry Spokesman Detained by Police

The Citizens Voice newspaper in Wilkes-Barre, Penn., has reported that the operator of the pro-open-carry site paopencarry.org. was detained by police after having his gun confiscated.

Richard Banks was eating at at Old Country Buffet when Dickson City (Penn.) Police arrived, detained Banks, and took his gun, which he was openly carrying.

While other patrons complied with a request to produce a driver’s license, Banks refused. When police told him he would be arrested for refusing to provide a driver’s license, Banks said he initially thought they were just trying to persuade him to hand over the identification. People openly carrying guns are not required to show identification.

He spent the next hour in a police car, his hands cuffed behind his back, and his wife and two young children watching. He was later released and retrieved his gun from police without incident a couple of days later.

Banks, a gunsmith, owns Frontline Armory in Mountain Top. Banks said he has openly carried throughout the area and never had an incident. Banks said he prefers to wear his gun openly and let people see it’s legal.

www.zwire.com

Reader Comments

His website is paopencarry.org

Comment by: woody-dingo | June 8, 2008

Isn’t this a little ridiculous. I think a police officer is within his authority to ask for ID. If after he showed his ID, the officer harassed him because he was carrying a gun legally, then that’s another story. Yes, there are some cops who overstep there authority, but refusing to show ID when questioned is just being a rebel and looking for trouble. I don’t see any problem with a police officer asking someone carrying a gun to produce ID to insure that he is not a convicted felon. If the cop ignored the gun and a crime was committed, the cop would have been crucified by the press and probably suspended or fired. I am a supporter of carrying guns, but also support the police for protecting the public. I carry a gun concealed everywhere I go, and have no problem showing my permit and /or drivers license.

Comment by: donba27 | June 11, 2008

To Don B, who said, "I think a police officer is within his authority to ask for ID", you are wrong. This isn't Nazi Germany; you don't have to "show your papers" to the police...you are not even required to carry any ID whatsoever (in PA, at least). If he had been carrying concealed, then he would have had to show his permit, but open carry requires no permit. Be a good little Nazi or Soviet subject/servant if you chose, but belittle fellow citizens who choose to exercise their rights.

Comment by: ANTHONY S | June 11, 2008

Don B....Ask youself, why did other patrons comply with the police demand to show a driver's license? Why would the police want to see other patrons ID? Was this a deliberate set-up to show Banks who's boss? There is no requirement in PA to show ID when openly carrying, period! This is the slippery slope you hear about. Open carry vs concealed carry is a completely different scenario. Your freedom is being challenged. Recognize it.

Comment by: Thomas B | June 11, 2008

I tried reviewing opencarry.org with an open mind, but honestly the more I read the more I think you guys have an attitude problem, maybe a chip on your shoulder. While I don't care if someone carries openly a lot of people do, and in this day and age, If you don't care about what people think of gun owners then you are pretty lame!!! In fact, you ruin it for the rest of us with your, in-their-face attitude. If you intend to make some kind of statement, then you certainly do that by simply pissing people off. then. The police have a difficult enough job, in this day and age of nut cases, trying to do their job without wondering if you're not one of them. And you know, I have to wonder about that too!! Concealed carry is there for a reason. First of all people aren't upset and those intent on harm have to wonder who's armed. Police can carry openly, why don't plains cloths and off duty officers carry openly? That's a mo brainer, yet opencarry.org people think it's fine. Cuz the perp is gonna take you out first, while I'm enjoying my desert!! I was open minded before reading the opencarry.org web site. Now I think it's foolish and, as a psychologist, I have to question the mental status of those who believe in it enough to force the issue. Grow up!!!!

Comment by: alchemist | June 11, 2008

I respectfully disagree with Anthony S. In fact, this IS Nazi Germany or worse (surveillance is more total). These days, the slightest disobedience to a Police Officer, even a hesitation, is Felony Obstruction. And that's true even if the Officer is wrong, as they very often are about matters of law. Welcome to 1984. We brought this on ourselves. Frankly, I don't think it will change until people fight back -- one reason I'm rural and avoid population centers.

Comment by: Hamilton Felix | June 11, 2008

To anyone who thinks Mr. Banks got what he was asking for, ask yourself this. WHY wasn't he charged with a crime? WHY did the police give his pistol back? (Admittedly, 2 days later, but they did give it back.) And I pack openly in Lansing, MI, and I've not been hassled one time. And while I respect Mr. Banks decision to not show ID, I would have. But that's a personal decision.

Comment by: ALBERT L | June 11, 2008

while the reference to Nazi Germany is extreme it does illustrate a point. Our founding fathers would be sickened to see how much of our personal freedoms have been recinded. I find it interesting that the last eight years have seen the most severe erosion of our constituitional rights. This from a president fully supported by NRA

Comment by: GEORGE E | June 11, 2008

I agree with you George. The last 8 years have caused a decline in our constitutional rights. How quickly we forget that 9/11/01 has changed a lot of things in this country. I think our founding fathers would be sickened by the fact that Fanatical terrorists intent on destroying the free world, are using these rights against us. They are very quick to remind us that their rights are being abused, and have the nerve to accuse us of profiling them and infringing on their rights. Unfortunately, until terrorists, felons, and mentally challenged people like the nut job that went berserk at Virginia Tech start wearing labels, then some of those 200 + year old rights need to be adjusted. I use the word mentally challenged because I wouldn’t want to say crazy because I might be infringing on his rights. If you really think that having to show ID is such a major infringement of our rights, then you are opening up this country to an incident that will make 911 look like a party. We worry about prayer in schools and things like the 10 commandments in court houses infringing on the rights of atheists. What about the right of the non atheists to pray.

Comment by: donba27 | June 11, 2008

Well, in this day and age, open carry of firearms will definitely get somebody's attention. In Texas, we carry concealed, and we avoid the attendant fuss that likely goes with open carry. AND.....the beauty of the concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know who is carrying and who isn't. It makes for a more polite society all the way around.

Comment by: canovack | June 11, 2008

It is a proven fact that the right to carry and protect yourself has not turned into the full blow blood bath many have said it would turn into, while it has cut down and crime in many places.According to Thomas B.(11 June 08)a "perp" will single someone openly carrying their side arm. Think about this. While concealed carry may make a "perp" wonder who is carrying and if it would be wise to commit a crime, whatif there are 40 people in a room and 30 of them are openly carrying. It is logistically impossible for the police to protect the public from those intent on committing a crime. You can not arrest someone for what they are thinking. Their only real job is to enforce the law once the crime has been committed. Do you think the average criminal with a hand gun or knife would take on the odds of a dozen or so openly carrying people or just move on? For all those who feel 9/11 is a good excuse to allow the government to erode our freedoms put forth in our constitution, Ben Franklin said it best. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Comment by: Arjay | June 12, 2008

I must admit that there's something cool and macho about open carry, but it also strikes me as a bit like little boys playing with their toys. What is accomplished by carrying a weapon openly? Just because you have a right to? I have the right to do a lot of things, but I don't strut around crowing about it. As canovack said, our weapons must be concealed in Texas. I prefer to have the upper hand—to have the advantage of surprise—if I have to defend myself or others rather than be a preening target. Except for having to remove my shoes every time I fly, I pretty much live as I have for the past 60 years. The only rights I have lost have been at the hands of the liberal PC crowd that have been stealing from us since the '60s. 911 didn't cause political correctness, higher taxes, no prayer in schools, smoking bans, SS taxes, the ethanol fraud, or the man-made global warming hoax. Grow up guys and realize that playing Hoppalong Cassidy does not equate with carrying a firearm responsibly, even though it may be your Right to hop along. And don't get your bowls in an uproar; I respect everyone who carries legally.

Comment by: irishrooster | June 12, 2008

It is unfortunate that these difference in opinions here are created by the liberals and their nit picky laws on guns. If they cannot ban guns they pass all the laws they can to make it a pain and pit people against each other. All these peoples comments differ, however all of us here believe in the right to carry, period. That should be the only law, not all the other nit picky crap. Great comments above, just remember the real enemies are the liberals (Democrats) and Al Queda even though we have a hard time telling them apart.

Comment by: Robert J | June 12, 2008

John H.

Psychologist or not, if you think my life should be guided by “what people think,” you have lost your mind. Laws guide my life and my actions. I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks about my lawful activity! “I have to question the mental status of those who believe…” that I should live my life the way others think I should live it. I’m a political scientist and I can tell you that is not the life our Founders envisioned. So, using your reasoning, we must all dress to please each other. And what about free speech? Well, that’s down the drain also. You may need to rethink this one.

Ed B.

Comment by: Edward B | June 12, 2008

He wasn't arrested for what he was thinking, or for carrying the gun. He was arrested for defying the police when they asked him for ID, a simple thing that would have ended the problem. Ben Franklin was a true scholar; however when he made that statment, he hadn't met Osama bin Laden and his band of brothers.

Comment by: donba27 | June 12, 2008

He wasn't arrested for what he was thinking, or for carrying the gun. He was arrested for defying the police when they asked him for ID, a simple thing that would have ended the problem. Ben Franklin was a true scholar; however when he made that statment, he hadn't met Osama bin Laden and his band of brothers.

Comment by: donba27 | June 12, 2008

The comments about this being Nazi like are well founded as the Gun control act of 1968 is an copy of what existed in Germany under hitler. Check out www.JPFO.org.I carry concealed and personally would have shown my permit as ID if asked but thats just my opinion

Comment by: Robert T | June 12, 2008

Why were the police asking for identification in a restaurant to begin with? Was it a Pub and they were doing an operation to see if underaged people were being served alcohol? No Old Country Buffet that I have ever been in serves alcohol, so unless it's different in PA that could not be it. Perhaps they were looking for illegal aliens to round up and toss out of the country? No PA is in the USA and police do not do that in America thanks to lawyers. Maybe the officers had an inside bet that a certain percentage of people eating there would had ID on them. No wait, gambling is not legal in that part of PA and we all know the police would never do anything illegal. Or maybe they would, if instructed to do so by their fascist mayor and other politicians who control their salaries and job security. So many people say "the people" need to fight back in these cases. As far as I am concerned the responsibility of the police is to "the people", not their chief or captain or the frickin' mayor. The police are a part of "the people" and need to stand up in these cases. If the law says ID cannot be demanded by law enforcement officers then those officers need to point that out to their boss when orders are given to them that are contrary to the law. It boils down to whether or not upholding the law is more important than keeping your job and being able to feed your family. It's not an easy job to do and there are many tough decisions to make when you wear a badge. Most of them follow orders and hope nothing comes of it. Well in this case it did. Hopefully it will wake up the voters there enough to get rid of the fascists who order their officers to break the law.

Comment by: Deadeye | June 12, 2008

Providing identification when asked by a Police Officer seems reasonable to me. How else are they to sort US Citizens out from potential terrorists who might also choose to carry openly? If you don't have ID with you, you can at least provide a valid address and your license number so they can pull up the picture. A major issue with open carry as I see it is firearm retention. LE has holsters designed to be snatch-resistent - do you? Although open carry may be an option I feel for the vast majority concealed carry is a better option. Because it's concealed, it's much easier for the carrier to control. It's also likely to be a surprise if needed because what can't been seen, probably isn't anticipated. Best of luck to you brave souls who carry openly.

Comment by: D Buck | June 12, 2008

Come on people. There's a time and a place for everything. When I'm out on my ranch in Montana, I carry openly. There are wild animal concerns, and it's usually too hot to try to conceal. Same when I go camping. I don't use campgrounds, so same reasons apply. However, when I go to town, I conceal my weapon. This way it doesn't make the populance uneasy (as does open carry) therefore helping to keep all of our carry rights protected. It's just common sense. Also, double check your concealed carry rigs and make sure that they stay that way. Flashing also makes the sheep, er um... I mean populance nervouse.

Comment by: TERRY B | June 12, 2008

Why would the police show up at a diner and simply ask everyone to produce an I.D.? I've never heard of this before. I probably would have complied, but I can't think of any reason to be "just checking"....but then, the press never gives you the entire story anyway!

Comment by: tommyb826 | June 12, 2008

bingo. the press never gives you the whole story or the truth. that is why there is more to this story than meets the eye. something is fishy with this story. don't ever trust the press to tell the truth or give zn unbiased opinion. mike

Comment by: pa-cman | June 12, 2008

Many people have brought up good points. The depth of their truth lies in the inner essence of the person stating them. B. Buck asked "How else are they to sort US Citizens out from potential terrorists who might also choose to carry openly?" Did they have probable cause to think terrorists were in the Old Country Buffet or was it more of a way to harass a well known vocal person who doesn't agree with their boss' or their opinion concerning open carry. Last time I looked, it was not against the law anywhere to not show ID.When something is fabricated in order to lock up one citizen who is minding his own business, how short a step is it to lock up any other citizen who disagrees with one group or another or our government? Someone said Ben Franklin hadn't met Bin Laden or any of his kin. He didn't have to. The liberties that were fought for back then are (and still should be)ours today or every thing was in vain.I am not about to give up my right to due cause. Unless they had a cause other than the fact Mr. Banks was eating in the restaurant, I think their actions smacked more of those of a police state and should cause every legitimate citizen of this country concern.

Comment by: Arjay | June 12, 2008

Don B. So you think you want to give police the power to just ask you for ID when ever they feel like it. How would you control such behavior by Cops? Only when they fell it is neccessary? What determines the neccesity? when would it be considered abuse of authority? Would you like to be at the park with your family and some angry cops walks up to you and seperates you from your kids to demand your ID and then question you as to who you are. Is that the place you want to live in?

Comment by: mtone | June 12, 2008

none

Comment by: lonnie | July 14, 2010

none

Comment by: lonnie | July 14, 2010

As I have noted above, I am a proponent of concealed carry mainly because it provides uncertainty for the bad guys, because they don't know who is and who is not carrying. If my home state of Texas passed an open-carry law, I would still continue with my concealed carry, for the reason I stated above. As I count down the months toward my 70th birthday, I'd like to think that my experiences as an Army officer of 21 years and a public educator of 22 years.....coupled with a lot of travel and interaction with people of all sorts have resulted is some sort of decent cerebral processes. Maybe yes, and maybe no.....but since we all have opinions about everything, I figure that we should be guided by our conscience based on experience and hope for the best possible outcome. If you like open carry.....go for it! If you like concealed carry.....go for it! What is one man's meat is another man's poison, so chow down on what suits you best.

Comment by: canovack | July 15, 2010