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Gun Reports - News
Are Guns & Ammo The New Gold?
December 26, 2011Printer Friendly | Email |
(GunReports.com) -- Ammo.net, an online ammunition seller, raises a provocative point about recent record levels of gun and cartridge sales:
"The threat of a U.S. double dip recession coupled with this summer's debt debacle in Washington - and the subsequent failure of the so-called "debt supercommittee" - has many ordinary Americans looking at gold as a safe store of value. However, there's another commodity that historically has risen in price along with gold - and is potentially more useful in the event of a global crisis: Ammunition."
The Ammo.net post continues:
Some of the fear-based psychological reasons for gold's popularity in times of economic crisis appear to be similar to the reasons cited for purchasing guns and ammunition. Michael Thompson, a small business owner from Virginia, had this to say about why he recently purchased 2,000 rounds of223 ammunition to go with his growing collection of AR-15 assault rifles: "Since ARs are so well-known & widespread, quality ones don't really go down in value. I don't trust what's going on in Washington and a reliable firearm that'll hold it's value plus ammo that I can always re-sell later if I don't use it up seems like as safe a place as any to put my money in these uncertain times."
One prominent factor which customers at Ammo.net cite as one of their primary reasons for stocking up on guns & ammo now is the uncertainty surrounding U.S. firearm regulations. Many wonder if President Obama's official position on firearm regulation will change if he wins a second term. Others point to recent actions taken by President Obama's appointees in the EPA and the Department of Justice, citing the EPA's recently proposed ban on lead ammunition due to health concerns about the lead seeping into ground water supplies and the on-going debacle surrounding the Deparment of Justice's failed Fast & Furious sting operation. Several states have also enacted anti-gun legislation recently, such as California expanding their controversial gun registry to now include purchasers of new rifles and shotguns.
Dustin Ramsey, a 28 year old self-proclaimed "realist" from Tennessee who says hunting and fishing are two of his favorite outdoor activities, counts the 5,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition he keeps on-hand as one of his investments along with gold coins: "I'm a hunter so I know I can use my guns & ammo to feed my family if something happens to our usual food supply and there's a run at our grocery store. Plus, it seems like somebody on Wall Street is always getting bailed out nowadays and my faith in the stock market has been gone for a long time. Look, I've seen what happens when times get tough and I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm for other supplies like I would with gold if push comes to shove. And if a crisis never materializes where I need my stash of ammo, I still love to shoot so those bullets won't go to waste. Given the uncertainty in our world, ammunition seems more practical to me than gold, whether there's an economic crisis or not."
Whatever their reason, Americans are purchasing firearms and ammunition in record numbers. USA Today recently reported that the FBI experienced on Black Friday their single largest number of background check requests ever in a single day, smashing the previous record by 32%. Background check requests are processed by the FBI according to federal law. Gallop also reported that gun ownership is at an 18 year high, with 47% of Americans admitting to Gallop they own a gun. These statistics coupled with customer feedback at Ammo.net indicate more Americans are taking advantage of their constitutional right to own a firearm - and are arming up in increasing large numbers.
Via: Ammo.net
Prices rising, sales rising - looks like a good investment to me. And this is one market that Goldman-Sachs doesn't seem to be manipulating, maybe the only one. So this is where to put your money. Remember, Pelosi & Company took control of the House in Fall 2006 and Obama in Fall 2008. The "Great Recession" began in 2007 with "quiet concerns" in 2006. Even with "saturation levels" of firearm sales in 2010..the demand is still rising. With the Euro-Zone collapsing in 2012 (possibly the broader EU), China's Housing bubble, internal debt and decline in their export economy leading to an implosion in the Chinese economy....affecting commodity suppliers around the world (including US farmers); 2012 is going to be chaotic. Guess what will continue to grow? Note, a DECLINE in sales immediately POST 911....it was only when "main street Americans" lost COMPLETE faith in their government did they turn to the 2nd Amendment! Remember what Jefferson said, Tyranny is when citizens fear their government, Democracy is when government FEARS its citizens." An "assault on the 2nd Amendment by Washington post November 2012"......GUARANTEED, unless a "Patriot is elected!" In the ninetys, clinton was trying to get ammo companys to make and sell ammo that would become useless if not used in a short period of time, since then, george soros has bought several gun manufacturing companys along with ammo factories. Makes me wonder if the liberals are doing what clinton wanted the manufacturers to do back in the ninetys. As far as the voting goes, I learned last week that soros also owns most of the voting machines in the country. Maybe that is why the democrats are grinning when they say that obama will win by a landslide. Interesting comment about the voting machines Vernon R. I wonder - have things changed that much in the last few years or is that ownership just a different aspect of the voting machine situation? What troubles me is that while Bush was still in office, most of those machines were running readily hacked software provided by Diebold, which was owned by a friend of Bush. The fed court in CA (whichever district that is) 'decided' that the voting software was protected property under intellectual property rights - the national interest in honest elections not withstanding. The effect was that nobody was permitted to check the software in any state (e.g. OH or FL) or county where there were allegations of voting 'improprieties', so a lot of accused Republican registrars got off the hook with a 'gimme' from the court and the cases had to be dropped. It was sort of like playing the 'state secrets' card to prevent damaging evidence from presentation. So, if a Bush crony controls the software, and a lefty like Soros owns the machines, do they cancel each other out? I suspect that the software will win in a contest to see which can most easily throw an election. But then, maybe Soros bought the machines and had new software loaded? Does anybody actually know? As most are aware, my methodology in acquiring a large number of firearms and ammunition is intended as a hedge against a time when such things may be frowned upon by our government. I figure that in the event the storm troopers come calling, they may take some of my pieces but not all of them. The ancillary benefit of keeping a good stock of arms and ammo is also couched in the value that they will have as items of barter. If you missed the Gold Rush invest in Lead !! .357---.38---.45 If you missed the Gold Rush invest in Lead !! .357---.38---.45 I have always been accused of being paranoid but it appears that perhaps I WAS CORRECT. Keep buying ammo. Yeah, Cecil, a couple of Illinois State Troopers accused me of being paranoid when they found my car loaded with firearms that I was bringing from Michigan down to Texas. After haggling around for two hours, and my lesson to them on the Second Amendment, we parted company with me retaining all of the pieces I had, and my caution to them of not confusing preparedness with paranoia. Good for you Colonel. I would really not wish to be in a confrontational discussion with you on most issues as I am sure that I too would loose. Hope you had a great Christmas and that the New Year will bring you prosperity. I on the other hand have found two more stray dogs that either escaped from their owner or were abandoned. So now you know where my SS money goes. The day Obama try's out of his arrogance to actually take away our 2nd Amendment will be the beginning of his end. There is a crowd in Washington who have a very distorted view of their position in life. Obama and his crowd seem to think they are elite and in a kings position. They feel that putting Supreme Court Judges with the same mindset will give them total control but it is a fact that if need be the people will use they're Constitutional Right to form militia's and clean out this mentally sick bunch of people and it will happen. As various psychologists have stated there is evidence in Obama's behavior and thinking showing that he is a mentally sick person and our history will show that. He dosen't realize just how vulnerable he is to be taken out physically by the people of our nation if he keeps pushing us. David b, I would be interested in more knowledge of the voting machine thing. It never hurts to have more knowledge. Anybody check Snopes to see about what Soros owns? Wait, I heard he owns Snopes, too. Everything on the internet is true. Seriously though, there is no doubt that the left wants all honest folk who disagree with them disarmed. Vernon R - You'll have to do some news archaeology. Most of it came out during Bush's first term, as a result the voting hijinks in Florida and Ohio, and of the Supreme Court selecting our president rather than have a new election. Then there were more allegations of GOP members who ran local election boards fudging with the software - in some cases a strictly Dem voting district supposedly voted 2 to 1 for Bush. In many, the 'results' were challenged because they were so far off from polling station exit surveys. None of it made headlines, but it was all in what we normally consider 'honest' media. Apparently, the guy who owns Diebold was a big-time Bush contributor, and his software was too 'precious' to inspect. So, some guys at one of the big universities borrowed a few and proved that a kid with basic computer skills could hack one and control the vote results in about 20 minutes. THAT paper, with methods and results, was posted on the web. I got a .pdf copy of it, and suspect I still have it somewhere. All of what we are reading in this discussion thread lends considerable credence to the notion that our election processes might be improved by a retrograde revolution..... Like using paper ballots that are completed by voters, deposited in locked ballot boxes, and manually counted by supervised election judges. There will still be opportunities for the unscrupulous to mess with the system, but if the electronics are taken out of the equation, perhaps a bit of integrity might return to our system of electing government officials. OK, so I looked for the published study of vote hacking that I saved and I can't find it. Funny now some 'sensitive' things sometimes disappear off my hard drive. Hmmmm. Anyway, I did find a few links that may give you fellas some idea of your own search terms. I used Ixquick for anonymous searching, and "hack voting software" as my terms. I found a short movie => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GamR4y_ykA0. I found voting machines for sale on e-Bay (maybe how Soros got his?) which are the ones allegedly hacked by voting registrars. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/03/for-sale-100-infamous-diebold-voting-machines-available-on-ebay.html ) And here is a news story (from the UK) about hacking the machines. I had forgotten that you could play with them remotely... (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/28/diebold_electronic_vote_tampering/ ) Oops. Sorry - I wrote "...the ones allegedly hacked..." but it should read "...the same model as the ones allegedly hacked...". BIG difference. My apologies. To be used as currency a medium must have several qualities.It must have intrinsic worth.It most be portable and divisible in smaller amounts as needed. It should be readily identifiable and not easily counterfeited. There are probably other qualities that ammunition possesses that make it more valuable than the FIAT money we are forced by government to use. When and if a crash comes Fiat money will make good toilet paper or tinder for a fire but even the brass will have value after using the ammunition and it can also be reloaded which would bring it back to it's original worth after you killed your supper or defended your castle with it the first time.Better than GOLD in some instances.You can't "spend" gold twice. It is only going to take one more 2008 economic collapse to bring about SHTF day. I thought I would be dead and in hell with Hitler, Stalin, Franco and Reagan but I might be around to witness it. We are living in some scary times my friends. Since all of us old farts are living longer than we had expected, we still have a sacred duty to preserve and defend the Constitution. While Cecil laments over the fears of what may come to pass, I trust that he will rise to whatever challenges may present as 2012 unfolds. We may be living in some "scary times", my friends, but if we remain committed to our oath to protect and defend the Constitution we will not only survive the trials and tribulations of these times, we can prevail. It is understandable to be afraid of future developments, but our best course is to convert our fear into motivation that enables us to influence the course of events that will lead to a positive outcome for ourselves and our nation. I'm not giving up Colonel but I have always been a pessimist. I am doing my best. Hopefully Ron Paul will get the nomination. I think he might be able to turn some of this insanity around. HAPPY NEW YEAR to ALL the guys here. Be careful, better yet, stay at home and celebrate tonight. As the Old Year of 2011 inexorably slips away from us at 2400 today, we welcome a New Year with new opportunities, challenges, and rewards. We did manage to survive the trials and tribulations of 2011, and we will encounter new ones, along with some of the same ones, in 2012. It behooves each of us, to continue in our vigilance and our efforts, to ensure that our freedoms are preserved for what remains of our lives.....and for succeeding generations. Freedom is not free. It never has been, and in order for us to hold back the forces that would destroy our freedoms, we must remain united and committed to the cause of protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America. To all in this forum, I extend my warmest regards and wishes for a happy, prosperous, and free New Year of 2012. 'See you at the polls. The sales data for December were historic; 1.5M NICS with 500,000 the last 6 days. December 23 was 2nd highest after this year's Black Friday which was 32% above record. In Bass Pro, 9mm "value paks" of 250 rounds are going for $62 or $0.25/rd and 9MM Brass for reloading is $25/100...."go figure!" We are having monopolistic colluding among AMMO companies/supplies/ Hording since November 2008 (Obama election) is not responsible for current prices nor is "commodity" pricing of metals, GREED and monopoly pricing...with the government looking the other way, is why ammo has remained high. Once REpublicans are in control in Washington, I will DEMAND a review of these "price spikes"...and watch the prices drop 45% when that happens! Hey, David D, if you have that sort of juice with the congress to get ammo prices down, how about getting those assholes in congress to not skip my SS increase for 2 years, then give me 3.6% the third year. Good luck with that. I would suggest that one reason the pride of ammo is high is that this nation has spent the last 10 years carpeting the middle east with brass and lead. Those folks will be doing a booming (pun intended) business in scrap for years if they want to pick it all up. Wish I had been smart enough in the 60s and 70s to buy a ship and schlepp all the brass and scrap metal out of the Nam. I wouldn't be living on SS now. How did I manage to type "pride of ammo"??? I meant "PRICE of ammo" dammit. Called "getting older" david. LOL. We all know what you meant and most of us old guys accept a little type. I mean, hell, there really are more important things around that we can criticize. Hope you had a good New Years celebration. Cecil No "juice" with Congress......the gun manufactuer industry is small and the ammo folks are, basically an oligrapy the per unit manufacture is SO concertrated! Even a rudimentary analysis of price: supply volume and demand curve will "expose" that the 124% price increase in a decade is artificial. From a PR/IR perspective, the LAST thing that a "patriotic customer base" needs to see is cold maniuplation by corporate greed. Take a look at how the gun manufactuers are "consolidating".....raises a LOT of questions! Happy New Year & Straight shooting to everyone! No "juice" with Congress......the gun manufactuer industry is small and the ammo folks are, basically an oligrapy the per unit manufacture is SO concertrated! Even a rudimentary analysis of price: supply volume and demand curve will "expose" that the 124% price increase in a decade is artificial. From a PR/IR perspective, the LAST thing that a "patriotic customer base" needs to see is cold maniuplation by corporate greed. Take a look at how the gun manufactuers are "consolidating".....raises a LOT of questions! Happy New Year & Straight shooting to everyone! Yeah, I know. when I bought my first AR, in 2000, I also bought 1000 rnds of .223. I still have some and they are tagged, $10.00 on a box of 100 rounds. Does sort of piss one off. But, "Greed" seems to be the name of the game everywhere now. Glad I won't be around a hell of a lot longer. I am disgusted by the whole lack of moral compass. And I don't mean in a religious way but in a human way. Happy New Year to you too DAVID. I try to shoot straight. Yeah, guys..... One of the benefits of getting older is the realization that we've pretty well run our course, and we won't have to put up with this shit for much longer. At the same time, though, my six sons, eleven grandkids, and one great-grandkid are going to be dealing with it for a long time, so we need to be leaning forward in the fox hole, remain locked and loaded, and keep firing on those targets of opportunity that would restrict the liberty of any and all Americans. But you know Colonel, sometimes I just feel like giving up and pulling the dirt over me. If it wasn't for my dogs (oh, yeah, I found 2 more abandoned puppies in the street last week) I would probably have already drunk the hemlock. I am just tired. Don't be in too big a hurry to cut and run boys. God himself gave us 120 years. "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:3) So we're only limited to 120. Less is unnecessary. Besides, the grandkids might need us around to tell stories of the 'free-time' and the 'time before slavery' so that they know there at least ONCE WAS a place called "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave". Its my intention to claim every one of those years as long as I'm fit enough to use them well. Too old to run just means I'll have to make an effective stand somewhere. I simply want to cost more in terms of enemy lives and sanity than I'm worth to them. Happy New Year Y'all! Cecil B - I was writing my previous comment when you posted your about being tired. I get that way too from time to time. Some days I just want to do precisely what you mentioned - lay in a hole and pull the dirt in on top of me. And I might if I wasn't so tired those days.... However, a juicy porterhouse (with a few porters or stouts), a double single malt, and a good night's sleep usually picks up my attitude. I think the 'tired' feeling may be at least partly a 'food thing'. And an occasional pretty young chippie will usually perk up my attitude a bit too. Or a nice looking cougar - which is what I prefer. One thing about having "been around the block" a few times is that most people come to appreciate the "value" of "Learning from History!" To paraphrase George Santayana, "Those who fail to learn from history are condemmed to repeat it... Looks like we are repeating history: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/01/us-economy-dysfunction-idUSTRE80007M20120101 Santayana didn't have to be particularly perceptive to come up with that dictum. Throughout my life, I have marvelled and pondered the whys and wherefores of some of the stupid things humans insist on doing. I think the first time I every heard Santayana's comment was when Harry Truman uttered it back in the early 1950s. Now, let me get this right.....I didn't hear it from him myself,since I was only born in 1940. It was in a speech I heard in a news/analysis program several years after he made the remark. Also, old "Give 'Em Hell Harry" didn't say it the same way Santayana did. I believe Truman's words were....."Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are damned to repeat them". I think he said that shortly after he fired Douglas MacArthur for bucking the chain of command during the Korean War. Anyway, it sure seems like we spend a whole lot of time, money, lives, etc learning the same lessons over and over again..... For Me, I guess I will just keep on buying all the guns and ammo I can aford and will do what ever I need to do with them. By the way canovack, Ruger has come out with another nice look pistol, the SR22, thinking on checking it out, and I am hoping you do to so I can pick your mind again, even though I am a Ruger fan. Hope All here have a very Happy New Year and a prosperous one too. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US. I would buy some more ammo but I took in a stray puppy this week and he has a broken leg, been broken for a couple of weeks the Vet said. $2500 to fix it. Oh, well. It is only money and according to the links above, better spend it now cause next year, we might not have a financial system. He is such a sweet puppy too. Final comment, This is a very important article! In the London Telegraph newspaper (geared toward upper middle class managerial audience), they reported on the RECORD sales of guns in the US (Britain is obsessed with America's "obsession," as they see it, with guns). What EVERYONE has failed to report on is WHY there was +1.5 million guns sold in the us in December (remember the ENTIRE US Military is ~2.4M people)..... The world is in a position that it has not been in for, at minimum, 80 years.......and "deep down"...everyone knows it! Final comment, This is a very important article! In the London Telegraph newspaper (geared toward upper middle class managerial audience), they reported on the RECORD sales of guns in the US (Britain is obsessed with America's "obsession," as they see it, with guns). What EVERYONE has failed to report on is WHY there was +1.5 million guns sold in the us in December (remember the ENTIRE US Military is ~2.4M people)..... The world is in a position that it has not been in for, at minimum, 80 years.......and "deep down"...everyone knows it! Final..final comment! Cecil B......."God Bless you on the puppy".....remember..."HE" ses's every sparrow...and you will be blessed! Thank you DAVID. As Dirty Harry said, "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I found out that he is a Cairn Terrier, a Scottish breed. And as for the gun stuff, I think I need to buy another couple of AKs and keep on buying that Russian ammo. Things are just not looking up. Those 2 links you supplied for us really reinforces what my sometimes functioning mind has been thinking for some time now. Here come the Zombies. Cecil B - I have to believe that God blesses those who take care of his creations - even the the ones with paws, and even if it's only in the affection and loyalty they return to us. I myself would not trade that for anything I can think of, and I'm sure you wouldn't either. My hat is off to you sir. And I agree, it does look like it's soon going to be time for someone to take that midnight ride and announce to all that "The Zombies are coming! The Zombies are coming!". Well, Cecil, it was a pretty great man who said: "What you do for the least of my brethren, you also do for me". I'd guess you are in pretty good company. Bear 1, I got an info message from the Ruger website that announced the SR22. To me it looks an awful lot like the Walther P22. It should start showing up at gun shows, soon, but I'm not all that anxious to add another .22 pistol to the collection. We'll see.....If I handle one, and I can't let go of it, that might make the decision for me. Thanks guys for those kind words. I am really not seeking Cannonization, just hate to seel the little guy suffer and he is so sweet. They loved my Mom, right off the bat too. His little brother, not same type is a little mix, part Chihuahua and I think perhaps Min Pin. I saw a really good looking AK with AR type stock on J&K Sales last night BUT, those WASRs have gone up $100 in the last 6 months. Even the Russian ammo is going up. Perhaps people are getting crazy like I am. I look at a gun purchase as a one-time payment on a health insurance policy that I can keep and use the rest of my life. Ammo is the rest of the payments. Good way to look at it david. Anyone in here have that WASR-10 with the telescoping stock? Wondering if it is solid or a piece of crap. Good thing about the Russian stuff, it is cheap, so if you loose it, not out tons of money and the ammo is cheap and they ARE pretty reliable. Thoughts from anyone? A few years back, I bought up a handful of Russian SKS carbines for $125.00 apiece. I have sold them all off, now, but they went for between $350.00 and $450.00 each. I still have a number of Russian pieces such as the Saiga 12 and Saiga .308, and they are good solid shooters.....and are currently priced considerably higher than what I paid for them. I don't know much about the WASR-10, but I do have a Hungarian SA2000 that's a pretty nice little knock-off of the AK47. It was very low-priced, and I still like it, in spite of its magazine well being restricted to 10 round magazines. I haven't had any experience with the Polish AK variants, but I do have a few Polish M44 carbines, and they are about the best of the M44s extant. The same is true of the Polish TT33 pistols. Sorry to switch the subject - really, I like gun chat. But I've just gotten this e-mail with some important news. In the coming New Year, 2012, both Groundhog Day and the President's State of the Union address will occur on the same day. This is an ironic juxtaposition of events. One involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to an insignificant creature of little intelligence for prognostication. The other involves a groundhog. LOL david. Could be a little truth in that. Colonel. I have an AK, with the wooden stock and it is a pretty solid weapon. Can't really complain as they will put lots of lead downrange and are pretty good out to 2 or 300 yards, depending on the shooter. I am just thinking of getting the carbine version, just to have another AK around. I figure we need something in EVERY room in the house if we have to defend in place. They are going for around $450, which is a reasonable price, even though last year, they were $330. I am not a big fan of telescoping stocks on rifles/carbines, since I always end up with a crease in my right cheek (of my face), after a session with guns that are so equipped. It seems that the end of the outer telescoping tube always finds my face on it when I shoulder the weapon. 'Fact is, I have restocked almost every piece I own that originally came with a telescoping stock. I can see where the telescoping stock would be a plus on most AKs, since the original butt stock is so short. I also appreciate that telescoping stocks are a logical way to provide relatively decent length-of-pull adjustments for pieces used my the armed forces, without having to custom fit every stock to every warrior. Now, focusing on the AK, several years ago, I found a solid walnut Bishop stock set for an AK47 at a gun show. I think I paid about $60.00 for it, and it allows the AK, on which I installed it, to feel like it fits me perfectly without any creased cheeks. It is also a very handsome set that includes the two forward hand guards, the pistol grip, and the butt stock.....all in very nice solid walnut. Well, Sir. Some of the scenarios I envision on SHTF day will probably entail some close in combat as I will no doubt be required to shelter in place (an 89 year old Mother and 8 dogs and 4 cats). I am thinking I could do some damage with the stock extended and a scope but when the Zombies get in close, it will require some fast moving around in some tight places. Now I could be totally off base cause I am not a combat Vet. like you guys, so I would welcome any comments on my thinking. Cecil B - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pnKd6iXHTQg There's also this, which also has a 20-rd drum available as an after-market product, and which can be had for about $100 each. Meaning the drum mag is available for about $100, not the gun itself. I don't think being a combat veteran makes much difference when it comes to defending home and hearth, except in terms of whether or not one has had occasion to actually take human life. I suspect that if you are defending against a home invasion, the basic weapon handling skills, that you have acquired during practice sessions, will get the job done. The only variable, I can see coming into play, is the experience or lack of experience in having actually killed another human being. The combat veteran may have the edge there, because he/she has done it before. However, if one is resolutely acting in righteous defense of self and loved ones, that variable may not be as important as we might think. Cecil B, for what its worth, as for the dogs and cats I wouldn't real worry to much about them because they seem to have an instinked to survive in bad times an situations. But for close in combat I would sucgest useing short barreled shot guns, ie. double berrals,or pump, simi auto, with large shot ie, #3,#4, 00 buck shot. Pistal grip and/or folding stock is also good for close in work. Don't forget a couple of good habd guns also. I hope this helps you out,'God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US Thanks bear1. I have all those things you mentioned as well as a few more. I was a cop for 10 years. I do worry about my animals though. Mine are so spoiled, I am not sure they could scavage very well. My latest is having leg surgery in the morning cause some asshole wouldn't fix his broken leg. By the way, in the FWIW department, EVERYONE that sells online guns has run out of AKs. And the local guys here in San Antonio, want $630 for the same gun I bought last year for $400. Looks like a lot of folks are getting ready. At the Austin and Belton shows, we are still seeing a fair number of AKs. Depending on where they are made, they are running $400 - $500. Are they new or used? Cheaper than Dirt is getting some more in soon. I want one with the telescoping stock. A half million NCIS checks in December alone - along with that many over the Black Friday weekend - probably sucked up a lot of the inventory that was out there in early November. Most likely those 'priced right' AKs and a whole lot of other things as well. Yeah david. Looks like America is stocking up for something. CORRECTION: "According to the FBI, over 1.5 million background checks on customers were requested by gun dealers to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in December. Nearly 500,000 of those were in the six days before Christmas. It was the highest number ever in a single month, surpassing the previous record set in November." The "People" are preparing! Thanks for the correction DAVID D. Those numbers are even better for America. And they have to be scary to the NWO gang. Hot news guys - A Marine squad was marching north of Fallujah when they came upon an Iraqi terrorist who was badly injured and unconscious. On the opposite side of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state. The Marine was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both men, the squad leader asked the injured Marine what had happened. The Marine reported, I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent. We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road. I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein was a miserable, lowlife scum bag who got what he deserved. and he yelled back that Barack Obama is a lying, good-for-nothing, left wing Commie who isn't even an American. So I said that Osama Bin Laden dresses and acts like a frigid, mean-spirited lesbian! He retaliated by yelling, Oh yeah? Well, so does Nancy Pelosi!. And, there we were, in the middle of the road, shaking hands, when a truck hit us. Good one david. Perhaps there is hope for Iraq after all. 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