Reader Comments
Physcopath with a Badge.This officer needs to be fired before he kills or injures some one. He dose not have the temperment to be in law-enforcment.
Comment by: butch12345 | July 26, 2011
I know of this case and it's not just the officer but the chief-of-police that should be fired and "with prejudice", not just white-washed and shoved out the back door. There are too many cops like these do a grave disservice to those who DO perform their duties with properly with professionalism and honor. This type of behavior is a "disease that seems to be rampant in the "cop culture" these days. especially so among the SWAT teams where many are clearly lacking sufficient training or moral code to be in such positions of power. Perhaps in this economy there is just too much pressure to provide "sheeple" for the court system to "shear". It's NOT the fines that they are after because that is just chump-change; it's enormous, hidden "bonds/securities" that go into the CAFR accounts based upon every case that goes before the courts and every one who goes to prison (the more the money-er).
Comment by: BigIron | July 28, 2011
Let me see if I have this right, super cop let two suspects walk who had given him names that did not come up when dispatch searched them and let the driver sit for 5 minutes after ordering him not to speak. Way too much emotion and way to little procedure.
Comment by: busdriver672 | July 28, 2011
What a loser cop! Come on down to Florida! You're real tough. You are the type of cop that shoots himself while cleaning your gun. Go dig so ditches or something.
Comment by: uvaldi | July 28, 2011
This guy is a hothead psyco that needs to be instantly fired ans sent to the psych ward of the nearest hospital. These are the kind of guys that should be off the streets instead he's walking around w/ a gun and a badge threatening to execute people and he and his other jack-ass of a partner let 2 people who are known criminals walk with giving false info. People, wake up and pull your heads out of the sand. This needs to stop! These so called "cops" need to be stripped of their jobs and sent in front of a judge and sentenced and then mentally evaluated.
Comment by: WeaponX | July 28, 2011
My God! The language. The disrespect. The suspected whore is way more polite than O1. What ever happened to "To Serve and Protect"? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Comment by: Mister E | July 28, 2011
If I'm carrying or have my gun in the car and get pulled over, I don't say a word and just hand over my CCL with my license, and then follow the instructions given. I haven't had a problem (not that I make a habit of getting pulled over). however, in this case, despite not knowing all the circumstances, and understanding that the officer intends to make it home after his shift, this display is shameful, and at the VERY least unprofessional.
Comment by: Larry L | July 28, 2011
What a jackass! This guy is on the wrong side of the bars.
Comment by: jandg | July 28, 2011
No. The real question is how did that driver get a CHL? A black pimp in the back seat, trying to cut a deal with his white whore, in a crappy part of town. He was begging to get caught. And probably lucky he was, could have ended up dead with his pants around his ankles.
The officers made lots of proceedural mistakes too. Drivers always get taken out first.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 28, 2011
Cecil, I strongly disagree with you. The real question is: Why is this officer not standing on the street in civilian clothes? I have a Peace Officer friend who shot it out with a bank robber a few years ago, and after he shot the guy and was helping to put him in an ambulance, he was still calling the perp "sir." This cop is no Peace Officer, and should never again be allowed to wear a badge.
Gaviota
Comment by: Lee W | July 28, 2011
What I saw from this and it comming from the police cars dash cam. is that both officers DID NOT follow protacal and or proceeders what so ever, This was worse than any ruckey mistakes big time. So then after making such stupid idiot mistakes trys to put it all on the driver and then makes threats to the drivers life and showing absoluty no respect for the driver from the start. the officer should have been upset sure but at himself and his pardner for stupidity and thier higher ups should fire both of them for the way they handel it from the start. Maybe the driver should not have been in the area he was but that was his problem and if the officers had done the job right would have checked out his permit and warned him of the fact he could get in a bad situation. God Bless America and Out Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | July 28, 2011
That video should be sued as a training tool by every law enforcement agency; as what NOT to do on stop, and the most ridiculous part is that it's the LE's camera that proves him wrong. I would use that video for a lottery win law suit against the entire dept.
Comment by: robhof | July 28, 2011
I can't believe this SORRY excuse for a cop still has a job. He should have been suspended WITHOUT pay as soon as this video came to light. This sorry excuse for an officer will undoubtably be a statistic with his attitude and demeaner. I am awfully glad that we don't have anyone like him in Michigan.(HOPEFULLY)
Comment by: Jayr | July 28, 2011
Well, aside from threatening a citizen with caving in his head, shooting him in the mouth, and executing him, he also fingered his partner as someone who would lie on the witness stand to protect him. AND, they never asked for permission to search the car, and didn't present any warrant, so I wonder what they used as their excuse for the search? What evidence could they have found that would have proved soliciting? What could they have seen? Oh, and just BTW, they let the pimp who lied about his name walk off.
They're vicious idiots, and I'll bet that pair has had a LOT of allegations of improper behavior made against them. That ass-wipe needs to keep his ass out of Starbucks, that's for sure. It's cops like him that are one reason I carry a gun. That guy is a criminal with a uniform and a badge.
With all that said, even when I was a kid in Ohio, Canton had a bad rep, and so did the cops there. Back then the town was one big speed trap, and the buzz was that the cops liked to throw their weight around down there. Looks like 40 years hasn't changed a thing.
Comment by: david b | July 28, 2011
It is unfortunate, but true, that there are law enforcement officers out there who have absolutely no business having a badge or carrying a gun. And that group--which includes these two dangerous buffoons--make every other good cop look questionable. While I don't think it necessary to go so far as to keep calling Gaviota's shot-up perp "sir," it sure does make a far better and professional appearance than these Canton thugs. (By the way Gav, wasn't it Churchill who said something to the effect of "Simply because one is going to kill a man, doesn't mean that one shouldn't be polite about it.")
Comment by: Visigoth52 | July 28, 2011
If the "suspects" were actual bad folks, the Cops would have ended up dead. They really bungled this stop. I'll bet the cops realized their error and therefore lost their cool. Still not behaving professional has no excuse.
Comment by: Mister E | July 28, 2011
Well Mr. Gaviota, I am an ex cop and I can assure you that after I exchanged gunfire with some asshole, I wasn't calling him sir. Too much "COPS" influence. That is not the way it is done believe me. I would give the officers in this case a few days off without pay, not for getting pissed off or using salty language but because they did some reall, really stupid things that could have gotten them killed. ALWAYS get the driver out first.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 28, 2011
Cecil S - I think you're off base here with your 'few days off' idea. If that one guy isn't stopped now, he WILL kill someone someday, likely over a traffic stop, and he already said on film that his partner would lie to cover it up. Based on that, it may have already happened. Sorry, but I think this guy needs to be fired, now, and spend his time cooling down on some warehouse night shift security detail. Better that than have him 'execute' (as he said) somebody with a bunch of kids watching from the back of the van.
Comment by: david b | July 29, 2011
Roid rage?
Comment by: compserv | July 29, 2011
Cesil S., Are you kidding? A few days off? This video should be shown at a national town hall on live TV and then the cop sentenced for his crimes. I am not a badass but if a cop talked to me like that I would have his head on a platter. So if any cop out there thinks this behavior is close to normal you had better get your head screwed on straight before you find yourself flipping burgers or getting it up the pooper in jail.
Comment by: uvaldi | July 29, 2011
Oh, BTW, didn't that cop also threaten to stop that guy every time he saw his car and jail him every time? Intimidation anyone? Threats of harassment? It makes me wonder how many locals are already on his shit-list, and lost their licenses because of his harassment. I wonder how many times he's shot someone, compared to the other guys on the force, or in nearby towns? Does anybody check into stuff like this?
Comment by: david b | July 29, 2011
Visigoth, that's a great quote. Thanks for reminding me of that one.
Cecil, I'm used to dealing with professional peace officers from Arkansas and Texas. I've never heard one cuss, threaten, abuse, or harass a citizen. If you think terroristic threats of murder, grievous bodily harm, and assault, along with harassment, intimidation, and perjury are not serious enough to merit termination, I think I know what kind of cop you were. It's my considered opinion that he deserves prosecution along with termination.
Gaviota
Comment by: Lee W | July 29, 2011
Well guys, opinions are like assholes. EVERYONE has one. I am not going to defend my record and really don't want to continue a debate with people who have not walked the walk. No hard feelings here though.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 29, 2011
On the few occasions I have been stopped for driving infractions, I have always handed the police officer my CHL along with my driving license, insurance card, and automobile registration certificate. I have never been treated any way but courteously by law officers with whom I have interacted. None of the officers required me to surrender my handgun. They all wanted to know where it was, and they all wanted my hands to stay on the steering wheel. I can certainly understand their concerns for the location of the piece. Even my brush with the Illinois State Police, back in 1998 when I was carrying a car full of arms and ammunition, was calm and courteous by comparison to this instance.
It matters not with whom this cop was interacting. He is a public servant who is sworn to honorable service. This mess was a display of anything but honorable service. If the Canton PD is anything like this one cop, as is alluded to in some posts above, it appears time for a wholesale housecleaning in CPD.
Comment by: canovack | July 29, 2011
Cecil that is buiishit.If somebody threatens to Shoot me in the mouth and or empty their .40 cal in me they will find themselves on the ground so fast it will make their head spin.This cop is so far out line that I could not believe what I was seeing and hearing.This is a good example of why the Portland Police in OR are being investigated by the FBI.
Comment by: butch12345 | July 29, 2011
Well, Colonel, I am glad you had pleasant experiences with any PD. But then, you probably used your head. That guy did not. He should have been screaming "I have a CHL". Things would have turned out differently.
But Butch, I have spent a couple of years in Portland and they are pretty good cops. But if I was you, I wouldn't make bullshit statements like that cause if you throw down on some officer cause he calls you an asshole, you might find yourself in the back of a body wagon. You sure would have if you had thrown down on me. Maybe YOU shouldn't have a CHL. And as far as the FBI investigating the Portland PD, they are a bunch of assholes that investigate ALL local cops eventually. I suspect if has to do with an allegation of something to do with the black folks you have attracted to a once great city.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 29, 2011
Yeah, Cecil, ya gotta use your head! As I make my way through my 71st year of life, I can truthfully say that I learned.....a long time ago.....that you get a hell of a lot further in life if you treat everybody the same way you would like to be treated. Hell, even if some dork begins on me with disrespect, I will normally respond in a respectful manner.....until I see that the dork is unaccustomed to giving AND receiving respect. When that happens, well, there's an old saying: "Never pick a fight with an old man.....'cause he'll just kill ya".
Comment by: canovack | July 29, 2011
My favorite expression Colonel. I just wrote a lengthy story to tell you about some REAL turd that caused me to leave the department but I got an error when I sent it and I am to tired to repeat it.
But, on another note, did you ever eat at the floating restaurant in Saigon? I ate there once with some Sergeant from 1st Cav. on his 3rd tour and about a week later, Charlie blew the son of a bitch up and it sank. Pretty good food.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 29, 2011
Cecil #1.I never said anything about drawing down on a officer with a firearm.#2.Not all of us out their need a gun to take somebody down.#3.Calling sombody an asshole is one thing!?1? Threatening to shoot someone in the mouth, empty their .40 cal magazine into u, and crushing your skull in you're skull, is a stark contrast to name calling.... Seems to me the "peace officer" in the video was more of an instigater than peace maker!!! BTW Im sure ur commanding officer would love to hear your some what racists view on Portland's current ethinic diversity!
Comment by: butch12345 | July 30, 2011
Well, Cecil, the closest I ever got to Saigon was when I initially arrived in country at Bien Hoa. I spent a couple of days/nights at the Long Binh replacement unit, and I shipped up country to Pleiku. All of my adventures kept me in the Central Highlands, and it was a rare occasion that I even got into town in Pleiku, Kontum, or Ban Me Thuot. To be honest, I liked it better in the country than in the cities.
Comment by: canovack | July 30, 2011
WOW Colonel, I AM inpressed. There was a lot of bad stuff going down in that part of the terrain. As I said before, you ARE one of our heros and we sure need more.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 30, 2011
Well, Cecil, I'm not trying to impress anybody. At the time I was in country, I was just a 28-29 year old captain doing what my country wanted me to do. I never felt very heroic, except perhaps one time when I was flying in a free-fire zone and we came across a small hamlet loaded with women & children. When I called back to the DTOC FSCE to question why this was a free fire zone, I got clearance to fire. Even after I had described the target three times, DTOC FSCE still gave me the clearance to fire. I told the FSCE to go to hell, held fire, returned to base and stormed into the DTOC FSCE telling them I was not about to massacre women and children. I then went to the G-5 and asked him if he was aware of that target. He knew nothing of it, but it was soon taken off the list of free fire zones. After that, I was known (among other things) as the Savior of Plei Preng Het.
Comment by: canovack | July 30, 2011
GOOD FOR YOU. Lots of people don't realize that war is a very serious business and there are times when "send in the marines" is not a good idea. First time I was in the Nam was 63 carrying military supplies but at that time there were mostly Special Forces guys there. I was 20 or 21. Then things went down hill from there. What a waste.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 30, 2011
Oh yeah, Butch, did your krav magra or judo or whatever the hell else you claim to know make you "faster than a speeding bullet"? I would be careful out there.
And as for having a commanding officer, don't have one.
As for your "ethnic diversity" goes, take a look at Rhodesia, Angola, Kenya, Tanzania and South Africa. That has worked out really well there.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 30, 2011
Cecil Why do you keep tryig to put words in my mouth.All I am saying is if I were to say the things that cop said to that guy on camera and an officer were to see and hear it I would be locked up real quick.Believe me I am not anti-law enforcement.But you cant go around and say the things that officer said that night.Especially in this day and age..He was out of control and you know it.That is if your claim that you are or were a cop is true. Obviously I'm not the only one in this thread that thinks so.By the way he was suspended and got his ass chewd out for his actions that night
Comment by: butch12345 | July 30, 2011
I am not putting any words in your mouth. Good. The guy deserved some days off and an ass chewing but not to be fired. He was pissed off as would any other cop have been after his partner crawled around the back seat and the driver was packing. Had I been the CHIEF of Police, both he and his partner would both get days off and chewed out cause that was really sloppy police work. And, yes, I was a cop for 10 years in Houston, Texas. I really don't care if you believe me or not. I left because I got real tired of dealing with people like that idiot driver, the pimp, the whore and people Monday morning quarterbacking. I worked Tactical Squad, before SWAT was ever dreamed up, Vice and was a Sergeant in the jail.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 30, 2011
the police officer should be stripped of his badge and gun.he clearly did not follow proper protocol.he endagered everyones life,if the civilian had a illegal handgun.calling the man stupid was uncalled for,due to the fact of his own stupidity.he should be off the force,due to his inappropriate behavior and actions.
Comment by: rtmuff01 | July 30, 2011
You joined in a little late for this discussion rtmuff.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 30, 2011
Hey guys, and Cecil S, you especially - look what I found about this guy. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/update-who-is-the-officer-behind-the-viral-canton-police-video/ Look at what I said earlier about how this guy may already have been a 'bad cop', and how it would only be a matter of time. 16 IA investigations in 11 years. How many complaints do you have to get as a cop to get an investigation? I'm sure the ratio isn't 1:1 - odds are good most complaints are considered 'without merit' and swept under the carpet by management WAY before IA ever gets them.
So, Cecil S, how do you like him now? Does this change your defense of the guy at all?
Comment by: david b | July 30, 2011
David b Thanks for the research. I agree 100%.Cecil s just doesn't get it or refuses to admit that this cop has to go.
Comment by: butch12345 | July 31, 2011
OK. For you two guys, this is my LAST comment on this topic. In face, I might even opt out of the GUNREPRORTS site since there seem to be a lot of Wingnuts in here.
EVERY cop that practices "Rroactive Policing" gets investigated by IA on a regular basis cause it some citizen gets his feelings hurt. IA investigations don't really mean much to me, it was one of the worst things that ever happened to law enforcement.
Not if you do not know what I am talking about, do some research. I do know that abolishing Proactive Policing has led to a rise in the crime rate in the U. S., no matter what "statistics" say. Statistics are done by politicians, not law enforcement (The FBI does what it is told). Just watch your local news and see if crime is going down.
So guys, keep it up. BUT, if you want some cop to show up at your house to help you, make sure he has his sociology degree prominently displayed on his dashboard and see if he can SIR the perp. to the jail house. And as a final observation, watch cops on TV. I am not sure how it has happened but those guys don't even know how to put handcuffs on a prisoner. Guess they don't want to offend him/her or skin their wrist.
Myself, I will do as I have always done. Stay out of shitty neighborhoods and if I do get stopped, which I haven't been in 25 years, I will continue to keep my head out of my ass. On that note, I wish you both well.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 31, 2011
Hey Cecil S..... All of us who regularly post in this forum have gotten into a scrap with somebody at one time or another. It is the nature of participation in this forum. That said, we shouldn't quit the forum just because we don't get agreement from every other person who posts here. Personally, I get a lot of insights into the topics that are discussed here, and though all of us may not always be in agreement, we can agree to disagree and let it go at that. Argument, by its' very nature involves the exchange of ideas and/or philosophies, and we may not always like what is stated herein. But I personally would view it as a loss if you were to voluntarily absent yourself from our discussions.
Comment by: canovack | July 31, 2011
Yes, Colonel, you are correct. I guess there is still a lot of blue in my blood and unless a cop is "dirty" and this guy wasn't (maybe a zip) as we used to call them) MOST guys will come to their defense. Sort of like being once a Marine, always a Marine I guess.
Hope you are having a good week-end. We in Texas were hoping for rain from the tropical depression but alas, it passed us by. We need it badly.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 31, 2011
Well, Cecil, I'm sweating it out, in Texas, with you. I'm still managing to save my front lawn, but I think the backyard has seen far better days. If you're still in Houston, I'm just up the road in Killeen. It was one of my acquaintances at Guns Galore that fingered the most recent terrorist plot against Fort Hood. Also, at least one of my former students from my teaching days is a cop with Houston PD.
Comment by: canovack | July 31, 2011
WOW, what a small world. I am living in San Antonio, caring for my Mother who is 88. My Dad died 4 years ago and I have been here 8 1/2 taking care of them.
I gave up on my yard again this year. We have those water restrictions in place and all that. Who is the guy with HPD. I left in 80 so ZI probably don't know him, he perhaps was not even born then. Shit I am old.
Glad those guys at Guns Galore are on the ball. I fear we are going to see more of that stuff as time goes on. He was a retired officer. He should get a thank you from the govt. for preventing that idiot from doing whatever he wanted to do. The world, she is a changing.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 31, 2011
I have a question. How was this video obtained? Think about that. Could it be that Deils knows that Harless is a loose cannon? If I were a peace officer with a partner like this, I am uncertain as to how I could split up with him without dire consequences...unless I could "get him dead-certain."
Comment by: BaldEagle1938 | July 31, 2011
Cecil S and Col Canovack, I live on the Eastern side of the Serrias in Commiefornia and I wish I could have sent Ya'll some of the rain we are having right now. We are having thunder storms for last 3 days and the other night we had the local SO come by and warn us we might have to evacuate because the acquduct was over flowing and we might be flooded out, but thank the good lord it didn't get up hi enough to really over flow the creek out back.But we need the water too.
God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | July 31, 2011
Thanks bear1. We are in a drouth that has been going on for about 6 years. I am old and I forget for sure. But we could use the rain for sure.
And I hope you do keep locked and loaded. I would like to see us get out of the UN but it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. To many idiots that think we can save the world. I would like to see them towing cars in NYC though. That would really piss off those 3rd world idiots that never saw a car until they fell off the plane at JFK.
Comment by: Cecil B | July 31, 2011
Actually Cecil, several of my former students have gone on to be cops. I would like to think that some of the good, sensible, love of country values that I consistently emphasized in my 22 years in public school education had something to do with it. As it is, I began teaching, following my 21-year Army career, as a means to continue in service to my country. It certainly wasn't out of great love of children (though my wife and I are the parents of six sons). My reasons for teaching were to intercede in as many young lives as I could in order to point them on the right path toward responsible, productive American citizenship. For the most part, I rest in my retirement in the belief that my objectives were met in the majority of cases.
Comment by: canovack | August 1, 2011
Cecil - I wrote a fairly long and 'peaceable' explanation about how I think you and some of us 'citizens' don't understand each other's views when we see this video. However, this website apparently doesn't like long comments, and it errored me out. It was also too long and too thought thru to reconstruct.
Suffice to say - without any intent to trash you out - that I think your years as a cop make it just as unlikely for you to understand how much a guy like that scares me or some other citizen, as it is for us to understand your point of view. Sadly, I think we neither of us did a good job explaining. But you do not need to bail on the website, nor call anyone 'wingnuts' because we disagree.
Seriously, he didn't 'just call the guy an asshole' - he pretty much threatened three different times to kill him. Doesn't that bother you? If not, why? I'm willing to explain why that scares me, so you please try to explain why it shouldn't.
My explanation would center around the fact that in court he will benefit from the presumption of 'right action' no matter what, and I will suffer the presumption that if a cop stopped me I MUST be a criminal at some level, even if they didn't find any evidence, and so deserve whatever I got.
Comment by: david b | August 1, 2011
Ok David. Here goes. The driver WAS engaging in illegal activity. Picking up hookers, and having their pimp in the backseat IS a criminal activity. That is what brought that guy to the officer's attention in the first place.
As for the threats, well, there are elements of the law that dictate what is a "serious threat to take life". Merely stating to someone that you are going to shoot them, hack them up with an axe or run them through a wood chipper does not constitute that "serious threat". If the officer did in fact pull his pistol and stick it in the guys mouth, then we have a different scenario and perhaps a real crime.
There is also an element in the law, at least in Texas, that words alone do not constitute a crime. I can say I am going to burn your house down but unless I show up with a pint of gas and a match, my words alone do not give YOU the right to kick my ass. And if you do, You can go to jail, not me. I am pretty sure that the law is the same in the state in which you reside.
So, in conclusion, I just didn't get that excited about the whole thing. I did agree that the officer was pissed off, that he did loose his temper and that he did not follow proceedure in the stop. I do think he should be punished. Fired? No. I do not agree. He is not a threat to you or anyone else. He will not kill someone just because he has a gun and a badge. Maybe he needs retreading, I don't know. But, to me, it just wasn't that big a deal and I can tell you one more thing. If he was coming to a call where I needed help against a crook, I would sure like to see him roll up.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
There used to be an old parlor game that we used to play when I was considerably younger. Basically the idea was for one person to tell something to another, and that statement was passed around to all who were there. It was always amazing to find how much the statement changed when it finally got back around to the person who originated it. There are also a number of tests or challenges wherein a group of people are all shown, or listen to, the exact same thing. Again, it is fascinating to find how many different interpretations of that item actually come to light.
Now, guys, the purpose in my descriptions above is to point to something that we all need to keep in mind. It is damned near impossible for every person to interpret things the same way that every other person interprets them. Our life experiences, our station in life, our thought processes all come into play, and the end result is that we may find ourselves at opposite ends of the spectrum as concerns some things that on their face would seem to be pretty simple. I think that is what we are seeing here. Any thoughts?
Comment by: canovack | August 1, 2011
Personally Colonel, I think we should get you to run for office and go to D.C. and try to get those idiots to see things as clearly as do you.
Hotter than hell here today.
Respectfully, Cecil
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
By the way guys, Google Russian AA12, then watch the UTube video about this Russian 12 guage weapon. Awsome. Hope the start selling it here soon.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
DAMN! I just lost another reply to Cecil due to ERROR 9 - whatever the hell that is. Editor - WHAT is Error 9?
Yes, Colonel, I have played that game, and that is why I was trying to stop the fuss and get to a discussion with Cecil. I really do try to understand the views of people with whom I have disgreements. That is still legal here, but sadly we often forget that while disagreeing, we're supposed to explain our positions. It's just common decency, and good learning.
Cecil - I'm sorry, but my reply was rather long, and I don't feel like trying to reconstruct it. Suffice to say, I agree with some of what you said, and don't understand some of it - like your confidence that this guy won't go off the deep end and kill someone. I do know that threats aren't illegal. I had that problem with a psycho neighbor when I lived in Ohio. I found it strange that even reporting the threat didn't result in any record if it because it's not illegal. So if the guy threatened me daily, and finally did something, it was going to be treated as a one-time thing, not something he'd been planning for months.
As for the AA-12, I've seen that video and I want one. My FFL guy tells me they won't sell it here, but it is available in Canada and Mexico. Supposedly $750 +/- black market if you can find it. I'm still hoping that Kel-Tec will get the KSG shotgun to market. For my little apartment, either would be a great bedroom gun, backed up by my .40 or .45 with a couple of 'extended' magazines - although I have a hard time imagining anyone still in my place (it's a 'shotgun' layout with one long hallway) and breathing after I unload 15 shotgun rounds.
Comment by: david b | August 1, 2011
Well, David, I am not a real shotgun guy but I thought that AA12 was the cat's meow. When I first got on the street, I carried a 7 shot Ithaca pump but it is heavy and a general pain in the ass. I finally bought a cheap double barrel and had it sawed to 18 inches (so the Feds wouldn't be on my ass) and believe me, when you walk into a bar full of people with that thing over your shoulder, no one gives you ANY shit. For an apt., it would probably do the job for you, long enough for you to get to the .45 which I carried when I was a Sgt. On the street, I carried a .44 mag, S&W, 6 inch. Yeah, we all thought we were Dirty Harry. LOL s
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
Cecil - I used to hunt a lot of small game with a shotgun, so I'm pretty much 'attached' to them. And I'm a pretty fair shot with one if I do say so myself. Short range, there's a reason they're illegal under the Geneva Accords. Loaded with #1 or #4 buck, they're real stoppers, and will even find gaps in body armor. Loaded with slugs, anybody is going down just from the sledgehammer effect, and even if he is armored he's out of the fight. Criminals (anyone actually) can buy armor on the web these days, so I think that is an important consideration.
Also, I live 'back east' where anyone outside shotgun range is unlikely to be seen or to see me. That's not to say I don't have anything that can 'reach out and touch someone' like the old Bell Telephone ads used to say, just that I expect that in town, in my apartment complex, where I can only see more than 150 feet in ONE direction, I think a shotgun and a heavy pistol are sufficient for almost any 3 a.m. uses. I will admit, however, that a short barrel with open or no choke is more effective at clearing a close area than a tighter choke or longer barrel. Also at hitting that grouse before he flies off thru the trees. So if that grouse was flying down my hall at my face in the middle of the night, I'd want the sawed-off you carried.
Comment by: david b | August 1, 2011
Believe it or not, one of out guys shot a black guy that was trying to shoot him, with a 12 guage, 1 oz. slug and hit him in the chest, just above the solar plexis and the guy lived. Absolutely incredible. I guess it just goes to show you that if it isn't your time to go .... And yeah, anyone can buy body armor these days. One of my buddies got one of the very first vests that came out way back in the 70's, make by a co. called Second Chance. He had it a week when a pimp shot him with a .22 and hit him dead center in the heart. Of course the pimp got dispatched to that big whorehouse in the sky but the officer had a bruise on his chest the size of a softball. Second Chance gave him a brand new S&W mod 29 (.44) and put him in their magazine and a new vest. Of course back in those days, if you wanted a vest, you bought it yourse.f
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
Hey guys. Check this out. For $1200 you can have your creamated remains put into 300 rounds of ammo so those you leave behind can plug some bad guy with your ashes in the form of a bullet. Is this a great country or what? That is not joke but I am still laughing after I heard it on The Colbert Report. LOL
Comment by: Cecil B | August 1, 2011
Amazing. What better way to still protect your loved ones even after you're gone?
Comment by: david b | August 2, 2011
I finally got around to watching the video, and we are all missing one very important point: legal concealed carry is safe! In spite of Officer Krupke's opinion of this civilian, he displayed what we all know: that the law-abiding citizen with a concealed gun is no threat to law enforcement.
We know not if the suspected John's story is legitimate. It shouldn't matter, and it should be up to the court to determine; not us, not the officers. As far as his compliance with Ohio law to "notify" the officers, it looks pretty clear to me that he tried like Hell, and was told to shut up every time he opened his mouth. (Arguably, he had a better opportunity when the calmer partner was in the back seat.)
I will make the presumption that the officers both knew the camera was rolling, especially since he and a partner (per David's link) had been previously reprimanded for failing to use the camera in a case that resulted in excessive force allegations. Cecil- this is why most of us get antsy about a guy like this: If he does this on camera, what will he do to me when there is no camera?
Comment by: PVB | August 2, 2011
This particular officer is also one of those we law abiding fear because he is obviously against private citizens carrying concealed, and further is likely against us owning firearms at all. He had absolutely no problem with the driver - to a fault - until he found out he had a gun. Until that point, it was a pimp'n'ho show. In this officer's eyes, and in this instance, the gun is the problem, not the person. Once the gun comes into play, the person becomes plebeian to the officer, as evidenced by his demeaning langage, continued hostility, and physical handling of the suspect. If the officer had merely "vented" upon learning of the firearm, I could see the point of those who say not such a big deal; however, he obviously calms down only to ramp back up whenever he talks to the suspect.
As far as the legality of the "threat" goes, who really cares? If I am the suspect, especially once already handcuffed and in the back of the car , and the cop is going off on me like R. Lee Ermey on Private Pyle, I am genuinely concerned for my own safety. Sorry Gunny - that's a bad analogy - it should be more like a North Vietnamese captor preparing John McCain or James Stockdale for another interrogation.
I have had numerous dealings with peace officers: ride alongs, getting drunken Jarheads out of jail, pulled over for "allegedly" ;) driving too fast, getting permits, being fingerprinted for security clearances, getting BATFE stamps, cops "showing up" for a housemate's pre-deployment party, and so on. In all but one instance, the LEO's have been extremely professional and respectful.
Comment by: PVB | August 2, 2011
The one bad encounter went like this: A buddy and I were home on Christmas leave from The Basic School; clean cut, and both wearing our USMC issue field jackets. We were riding around town in his brand new car when we observed a state trooper attempting to turn into traffic the wrong way on a one way street. The officer had no lights, no turn signal, no nothing, and caused a minor traffic jam. The jam cleared, and we were promptly pulled over. The officer approached and and my buddy respectfully asked if there was a problem. "Yeah, I thought I saw him call me asshole!" the officer shouted as he pointed at me. Yes, Trooper Washington thought he SAW me call him a dirty name. (Keep in mind - it's December; the windows are up.) I apologized for the apparent name-calling, and assured him I said nothing of the sort, and apologized again. During the rest of his rant, we both said "Yessir" and Nosir" a lot. Finally, realizing we were in the service and not a couple of miscreants, he departed our company.
Chapter II: Yours Truly asks my buddy if he got his name 'cause I knew a state cop or two. Nope. Ever the quick thinking young lieutenant, I got out of the car and asked Trooper Washington for his name. He told me, and came around the car to show me his name tag. I thanked him and wished him well. We all got back into our cars and began driving. Not for long - sirens. We pull back over. Buddy says to Yours Truly to keep your f-ing mouth shut this time. Roger that! NOW Trooper Washington wants to see the driver's license and registration for the fresh-off-the-lot car and calls everything into dispatch. After clearing dispatch, we all go on our merry way.
Comment by: PVB | August 2, 2011
The point here Cecil is that while most of us know LEO's are largely professional in their comportment, we only need one instance like the one in the video to permanently alter our lives. That is why so many people here have spoken so strongly against the actions of this officer. Notice; his partner was calmly going about his duties, perhaps even complacently, while Officer Krupke goes off like homemade fireworks.
There is absolutely no excuse, in my opinion, for any paid professional to carry on in such manner. Again, a vent might not bother me personally, whereas the sustained berating and "threatening" does. The officer's actions exemplify why there is already a growing problem of distrust between civilians and government, in this case LEO's. This video probably makes the prosecutor's job rather difficult, and thankfully so, otherwise the LEO probably gets easy credibility in court, especially if the defendant is bumbling and scared. Personally, I would be quite nervous going into court for "failing to notify" without this video. My word against two cops? As the cop said repeatedly, that's bull...
Cops have a tough job. Bonafide perps make it worse. This suspect did nothing to endanger anybody, yet sustained serious verbal abuse and repeated "threats" from someone with more than enough ability to carry them out. Sorry, but I think that cop and former Marine needs to hand in his badge, or at least be stuck behind a desk where his ego only affects his fellow officers in non-life threatening scenarios.
Comment by: PVB | August 2, 2011
Yeah, it is damned hot! Ever the glutton for punishment, I mowed my front lawn yesterday, and today I am running the travelling sprinkler on it. My wife thinks I am nuts for working out in the 108 degree heat, and maybe I am. Perhaps as I push age 71, I'm just trying to prove a point that I can be pretty damned ornery. Aawwhhhh screw it! At least I can stay inside most of today.....playing with my guns.....
Comment by: canovack | August 2, 2011
YOU have grass Mine dies about 2 months ago. I stay in with my dogs cause the won't go out except to potty. And people say animals are dumb.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 2, 2011
PVB. I want to thank you for your service to out country. Semper Fi. Just keep your head down when the send you to Afghanistan. As for your encounter with the Trooper. You have to remember, Traffic enforcement is what they live for. Speeding is a felony to them. I will comment to you further about the guy in Ohio but right now I have to clean up a mess from an overflowed washing machine. Keep the faith brother.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 2, 2011
Yeah, I know what you mean about dogs. Mine usually has bowels that are tuned to a clock so that first thing in the morning we go out, and she does her thing. Recently, with this godawful heat, she gives me a look that says: "Are you nuts?.....I'm not gonna take a dump until I absolutely have to." She makes no bones about not liking the heat outside. As soon as she does whatever she does, she goes straight to the door to get back in the house, while I am out policing up her little packages.
Comment by: canovack | August 2, 2011
One time I called a Mule and dump gritter and my Grand Dad stopped me just before I smacked it between the eye with a 2x4. Then told me a story that soon after I found out was true, it goes like this, At one time there was a cross country raise in a state, unnamed, and all the cowboys laughed it up big time when this old boy entered his mule. well the race lasted through the night and had some rugged land to cross in cluding a small but deep canyon.Well the next day all that showed up at the finish line was a couple of horeless riders all beat to hell and a couple of riderless horese also beet all to hell and off corse the first ones in was the old boy and his mule. when asked he replide that in the midle of the moonless night his old mule stop suddenly and refuse to move forward no matter what the rider did, untill the rider gave him his head, well that old mule found a spot to cross the canyon without a problem while all the horese ran right of the edge fell or stumbled with their riders. moral of the story is animals are not dumb by anymeans. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 2, 2011
Bear1 - apparently the horses weren't all that bright. HA!
Comment by: david b | August 2, 2011
Horses? bright??? Yeah, right! I like the old mule story, and I'm sure a West Point buddy of mine will too...
Comment by: PVB | August 2, 2011
Not only is the old mule smarter than the hore but also smarter than most of the riders, because most hores would also stop at the edge, even though the rider couldn't see the drop off like the mules rider, but the horse riders wouldn,t listen to what the hores was telling them and push them streight on and off the cliff. So the Old Mule was even smarter than alot of humans.
God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 2, 2011
For PVB. I will always defend and officer, even when he screws up, unless he is "dirty". Then screw him. One of the things in this story that has not been mentioned is the problem of PTSD in police officers. We used to call it burn out and it usually happens after about 8 years. Most departments don't recognize it and if they do, they don't deal with it. I saw a lot of it and that's why I left the department in 1980. I suspect the officer in Ohio, judging from his age in the video is probably there. Should he be fired? I don't think so. Should he be given an indoor job with regular hours and not have to fight crime every night? Yes. We have invested money in these guys for one but more importantly, they are people too.
By the way, did you go to West Point too? I graduated from The U. S. Merchant Marine Academy, way back when we still had covered wagons.
Oh yeah, mules are smarter than horses but all animals are smarter than most humans. LOL
Comment by: Cecil B | August 2, 2011
Colonel. I have a dog door cause I have 5 strays that I have taken in cause people in SA dump dogs, AND a Jack Russel Terrorist, plus 4 cats that people have dumped. I am a real idiot. Of course, at certain times, even though they have their own door, they will make me open one of mine to let them out, just to see if I have lapsed into senility and have forgotten who the bosses are around here.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 2, 2011
Cecil - PTSD was one thing we had neither of us mentioned and I hadn't thought of, but you're right. And if he were examined and disgnosed with PTSD, I'd agree that he shouldn't be fired. It's a 'service related' injury to cops and military personnel. But I do think he would need to be 'benched' in a desk job. I had a case of it back in the 80's and am not sure I ever fully recovered. I don't freak out any more, but did. Now I just got stressed up and sort of shut down and can't manage to get anything done. Either way - raging or shutting down - is probably not good for a guy working the streets.
And based on my experiences and your mention of it, I'll agree it's a good possibility. So, I'll change my tune now and say 'poor bastard, he must be suffering badly'. OK? But he still scares me and I still wouldn't like to meet him anywhere under any circumstances, because it could be dangerous to me.
Comment by: david b | August 2, 2011
He would probably scare the shit out of me too and I think he should be off the streets. He sure has all the signs. Being a street cop is a crappy very high stress job. Just like being an undercover narc. Eventually, they often go off the deep end. And speaking of high stress, 4 little gang turds rolled up next to a Bexas County Deputy today and just opened fire. He is OK. a month ago, same thing happened only that deputy was KIA.
And then on the other side of the coin, maybe I have PTSD or am just plain crazy. LOL.
Have a good evening.
Cecil
Comment by: Cecil B | August 2, 2011
Cecil -
PTSD is a good point. What bothered me most about the officer's behavior was the way he seemed to turn it on and off.
As for the apparently inept state trooper, I knew he was far from representative of the barracks, and spoke to the captain about him. I surmise he was recruited under a short-lived, politically influenced, experimental program of some sort that resulted in some candidates being less than stellar compared to the typical trooper.
I've been out for longer than I was in at this point, so I don't worry too much about getting sent back to another God-forsaken desert, but thanks for the wishes anyway.
I sat opposite the Cadets during the annual matchup of the greatest football rivalry in history. One of my best friends in recent years graduated from Army.
I love the Jack Russel "terrorist" name too - it fits really well! Our last two dogs have been rescues, the current one about 12 years old in spite of missing a leg.
Cheers!
Comment by: PVB | August 3, 2011
It amazes me how much one simple thing, in this case guns - brings together people with so much else in common. It almost makes me wonder about the possibility of a connection of some kind between those various interests.
My GF and I do fostering for rescue dachshunds and have had probably 2 dozen fosters over the last 8 years - some for days, some for years. Her daughter got us started by adopting one when she and her husband were staying 'at home'. We've adopted two of our fosters because they were considered 'unplaceable' due to aggression issues. (It's shared custody - they live with her and I pay their bills.) In fact, our old guy "Goosie" was there for over 2 years before he quit threatening to bite me every time I got near him. (Apparently something like doggie PTSD from mistreatment in one or more of his 5 prior homes.) And just last year he still took hold of my hand - it took 10 minutes and a grilled chicken wing to free me with no more damage than a few puncture wounds. The kids have 4 'unadoptables' now, plus two other 'rescue dogs' of larger size, and one sister has one 'unadoptable' and her BF has one. And I also have 4 homeless cats who now live with me.
The girls put an end to fostering however, after a few died in our custody after being put into rescue for health reasons. That's hard to handle. I don't mind that they stopped, because I was getting so attached that I was already crying every time we sent a foster to it's new home, so you can imagine how I felt when one died.
Comment by: david b | August 3, 2011
Oh, and by the way, I've apparently learned a lot over the years. I did NOT punish Goosie in any way after he let me go, nor try anything harsh toward him while he held onto the back of my hand. In fact, it really didn't bother me that much, it just hurt some. It was a party evening and he just got too wound up with all the 'new friends' there - he was doing some serious 'working the party' that night. I think he was actually afraid to let go once he realized he'd freaked out and bitten 'daddy', and later that evening he spent a lot of time cleaning my wound. But maybe he just liked the tatse of the vodka I'd used to wash it out?
Comment by: david b | August 3, 2011
I see a common thread developing in these discussions. We, as gun loving people, are also revealing that we are animal lovers as well. When I think back over the years, our home has been residence for quite a broad selection of dogs, cats, snakes, squirrels, lizards, turtles, gerbils, fish, rabbits, birds, tarantulas, centipedes, and ant colonies. As one might imagine, the greater number of the creatures we have had were the result of our sons constantly bringing things home. With the quiet dignity of advanced age that has finally settled on us, my wife and I are now quite content to have one wonderful Boston Terrier, who in every way, is our equal.
Comment by: canovack | August 3, 2011
Where's Cesar when we need him??? Dog Whisperer meets Sons of Guns - now THAT would be a good reality show!
Comment by: PVB | August 3, 2011
P.S. - along the lines of commonality, perhaps the biggest lesson of being one of USMC
Comment by: PVB | August 3, 2011
Comment by: PVB | August 3, 2011
Comment by: PVB | August 3, 2011
I always want to go "Trailer Park" whenever I see animals being abused, and unfortunately it happens quite a bit. Even though some turn out to be agressive, it can usually be traced back to the way some asshole treated them before dumping. Fortunately, none of mine are agressive except when it comes to crowding me out of bed. Only the 4 smaller ones sleep with me but my 140 lb Yellow Lab occasionally decided to get up there for a little while. He is paorably 6 but will always be a "puppy". Just refused to grow up, but I don't care.
Try to stay cool today. Supposed to be 104 today and I have to go to the Farmers Market. Support Your Local Farmers please.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 3, 2011
WOW...I have never read more stuff on this crazy site by the "posters" that made me wanna cry! LOL! God, guns, good people, dogs, cats, snakes, squirrels, lizards, turtles, gerbils, fish, rabbits, birds, tarantulas, centipedes, ant colonies, horses, mules, poignant statements and diverse opinions. Could one ever ask for more?? LOL!!! God bless ya'all! And yeah...hot as hell here in Hobbs, New Mexico too! I'm a Federal Security Officer on assignment at the Urainum Processing Facility down here from the Los Alamos National Labs, and I won't EVER get used to this HEAT! My little 1 year old yellow lab, Cassie, that I rescued after my Wymer/Golden Retriver passed won't do the do unless I get the umbrella out! (joking, sort of..) LOL! And as far as that officer is concerned...getting back on point...God bless him too. We all don't like how he handled it. He was wrong in doing what he did and he knows it now. Time to think about one's actions is what everyone in that damn tough profession deserves. I believe he will be better for it.
Kindest Regards,
In God We Trust...
Comment by: Geometric1 | August 6, 2011
Now that sounds like an interesting job. Keep the rags out of the processing plant. LOL
My dogs only run out to do their business, then back into the AC. Course they don't pay the electric bill, or even chip in.
Wouldn't sell any of them for a million bucks though. Had I known about dogs, I never would have been married 3 times.
Keep the faith and stay locked and loaded.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 6, 2011
By the way guys, Cheaperthandirt.com has some 556 ammo on sale today, 20 rnds., 60 gr. for 6 bucks and change. Reviews say it is pretty good ammo, so I bought another 300 rounds. Can hardly get into my room any more.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 6, 2011
Yep Cecil, pretty interesting job...I wear a gun, uniform, and a badge too...only and I mean only if you have been "on the job" can you begin to comprehend how many asswipes you have to deal with on a day in and day out basis. Including some of your collogues. That being said, after being a land surveyor for 30+ years, (had to re-invent myself due to the crappy economy) I wouldn't trade this experence for anything in the world. Sure it is tough, but...where would we be if people like you, the Colonel our military...ect. did not exsist?
Kindest Regards...
In God WE Trust....
Comment by: Geometric1 | August 6, 2011
Wow...jumping from story to story...Cecil...just ordered some 5.56X45 ammo myself...check it out Natchezss.com...62 grn..M855 SS109 Lake City Green Tip...in sealed ammo can... on stripper clips....420rnds...$153.09...I purchased two. This is the GOOD STUFF! Better get it quick though!
Kindest Regards...
In God We Trust...
Comment by: Geometric1 | August 6, 2011
Know what you mean Geometric. I did 10 yrs. with Houston PD. Lots of asswipes out there and they seem to be multiplying. But check out the Cheaperthandirt.com site. They have lots of stuff too. I got some of that LC green tip. I am getting ready for either Zombie Day or When The Shit Hits The Fan Day, whichever comes first. They keep screwing with the economy and I am betting WTSHTFD coming first. Way to go congress. What idiots.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 6, 2011
Ya know? Once we all start shootin' the shit, we also find that not only are we united in our adherence to the Second Amendment, we are also just a bunch of good American guys sharing our experiences, our concerns, and our hopes. May God Bless us all, and may God Bless the United States of America!
Comment by: canovack | August 6, 2011
Well said Colonel... There ARE several common interests shared here in this forum, the God given right to self protection and defense, the 2nd amendment rights our forefathers thought out so painstakingly, the Bill of Rights, amoung many others as I have read. And from time to time, new points of view are a good thing! Makes one think about how others live, love, and have died for that FREEDOM to speak their minds we sometimes take fore granted.
Kindest Regards...
In God We Trust...
Comment by: Geometric1 | August 6, 2011
Perhaps we all have more in common that we sometimes think. Until I get in San Antonio traffic anyway. These people drive like assholes. LOL
Comment by: Cecil B | August 6, 2011
Perhaps the problem in San Antonio traffic is the number of illegal aliens who are buzzing around there. One of my sons who lives in El Paso, observes that the folks who come from the south side of the Rio Grande drive like maniacs, and they usually have no car insurance as well. I also recount my experiences in the Republic of Panama and other points throughout Central and South America where I operated from 1973-1977 as pretty hairy when it came to driving among the local folks.
Comment by: canovack | August 7, 2011
Ever been to Hobbs, New Mexico??? Talk about crazy darn illegals and the way they drive!!! NO insurance and not a CARE in the world about who they hit and run back across the border!
Kindest Regards...
In God We Trust...
Comment by: Geometric1 | August 7, 2011
Not sure of the driver's residency status but I do see lots of Gringos acting very rudely. OK, here I go, a shitload of them are women AND they have a damn cell phone stuck in their ear.
I have been meaning to ask you Colonel, what did you think of the black berets that the Army chose to be their headgear of choice, even with Class A uniforms (which by the way, I hardly see any more)?
Comment by: Cecil B | August 7, 2011
I kinda thought the beret was pretty sexy. After all, many of the world's military forces wear them in some form. Now, I think that Eric Shinseki made a major blunder when he dictated that the black beret would be standard for most Army troops. As you may recall, the black beret was worn only by Rangers before all this headgear thing started up. Rangers - Black Beret; Airborne - Red(Maroon) Beret; Special Forces - Green Beret. If Shinseki was so enamored of the beret, I think he should have selected a tan beret for all troops except the specialty forces. As it turned out, the Rangers opted for the tan beret when Shinseki took the black one away from them.
Now, personally, I always liked the Army service cap.....the one with the black leather bill also known as the "flying saucer". When wearing class A greens everybody wore the service cap, and the officers had the distinction of gold braids and if you were a field grade officer, you also wore the "scrambled eggs" on you bill. I remember when I made major back in 1971, I was so anxious to get that cap with the "scrambled eggs". By the time I retired as a lieutenant colonel in 1984, some of the glit and glitter had worn off the braid and "eggs", but it still was a very distinctive piece of headgear.
Comment by: canovack | August 7, 2011
I always thought the Garrison Cap was classy, expecially with the eggs. In the Navy or AF you only got the eggs at O-6 if my memory serves me. And I liked the "Piss Cutter". I think what turned me off on the black beret was their shape, different than the Brits and our government bought them from .....drum roll...CHINA. Damn, damn. Man am I getting grouchy.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 7, 2011
I always liked the braid and egg as a jrnco because it always showed us who to salute will before we got on top of an officer and then we had less chance of getten our but chewed for not saluting. Now I hardly ever see a class a uniform but sure see all of utillities or what we also called fatiges whitch were for work and not seen a lot of base, of base you mostly saw the class A's or kakies, with saurcer cap or what we call a c--nt cap. God Blees America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US.
Comment by: bear1 | August 7, 2011
Hell, they had a Change of Command here at Ft. Sam and everyone was in fatigues. I guess they save the class A's for when they have to go to DC to appear before some dipshit congressional committee.
BUT, I remember the WWII uniforms, the Ike jackets and I remember when the AF changed over of OD to blue. And the Pinks and Greens were the most beautiful uniform our guys ever wore. Man, I miss the old days and I hope someone is watching over our troops past and present.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 7, 2011
Cammies used to be forbidden for wear off-base, or as a liberty uniform. I'm not sure how I feel about the new trend.
The first change of command I saw with cammies was in the '80's, and I think the trend was begun by portly generals who wanted everybody to know they were warriors. (Never mind that they didn't look so good in the dress uniforms...) Before long, in the conflict starved '80's, everybody was jumping on the real warriors wear cammies, REMF's don't, bandwagon.
Comment by: PVB | August 8, 2011
For the bulk of my Army career, policy for wear of uniforms was that if you went anyplace off of the installation, you could not wear a utility/fatigue/BDU/ACU type uniform. Class A was required for all off-post business. That meant you wore your greens, khakis, tans, or TWs to go downtown. The blue uniform was for wear only after 1800 hours for social events. I didn't run into any exceptions to that policy until I arrived at Fort Hood in 1981. All the troops could be seen all over Central Texas wearing their BDU/ACU/fatigues. It was a shock to my sensitivities, but I too fell into the habit. Personally, I think that we have lost a bit of the pride in the uniform by permitting the wear of other than class A uniforms out in the civilian community.
Comment by: canovack | August 8, 2011
I still remember getting up and going for a mile run and doing pt befor breakfast and doing all of it in our Fatigues and combat boots and some times have to do the run with a full pack, this was in the sand pits of America Fort Ord, Ca. Now they run in shorts or sweats and wearing lite weight running shoes. I will never forget when some one screwed up in basic have to fall out in the fog or rain in shower shoes and poncho liners and full foot lockers and running in place forever with the DI's yelling at us to keep the foot locker over our heads and then having to do push ups for what seemed to last forever. Damn never thought I could miss them good old days in any way. God Bless America and Our Troops Passed Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 8, 2011
Guys, we are ALL showing our age I guess. I never experienced the "real soldier" stuff you guys did but in my defense, I did do 4 years in a U. S. military academy and did 10 years in the Navy Reserve. But in 66, they needed merchant marine officers more than Ensigns so couldn't do active duty. As I look back over my life I wish I could have done a hitch in the French Foreign Legion. I could have even learned to speak French.
I still love the WWII uniforms. The U. S. Marines seem to be the only ones to keep the old stuff.
Bless all of you guys for your service to our country.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
Hey, bear1, I too remember company formations in the rain. Our basic weapon back then was the M-1 Garand rifle, and if it got wet or muddy you'd damned well better get it clean and dry before an inspector got to it. Doing PT with that 10 pound M-1 at high port was just such a blast! The floors of our barracks were unsealed wood, and we used to have toothbrush parties cleaning the dirt out from the cracks between the planks. Yeah, it was a real fun time, but like you, I also have a bit of nostalgia for it, and I still have my commemorative book from my time at Fort Riley, Kansas in the summer of 1962. The photographs are really hilarious.....now.
Comment by: canovack | August 8, 2011
Hey Col. I too remember the port arms drill and making darn sure my weapon was clean before an inspector showed up, only diff is ours where the M-14 instead of the M-1 Grand. pretty much same differance.Since I joined the Army at seventeen in69 I didn't really see the M16 until just before I went to Nam in '70, then that was a bunch off extra training with lots off good stuff including how to make something go by by with a nice big boom did I make my aquantice with the M16 and this was while I was waiting to turn 18 so I could go to Nam. Cecil S I for one beleave you did your tour of sevice for this country in your own way so Thank You for doing so Sir, God Bless you. And with that I will skip my usual ending.
Comment by: bear1 | August 8, 2011
Thanks bear. After it was all over, I just didn't feel like carrying ammo and military supplies to the Nam was really doing my part. My ass should have been in the grass with you guys.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
Canovack - I agree; we've lost a lot of pride in the uniform. The good news is that it's a lot easier for Hollywood to get it right since there are no ribbons and emblems are largely velcro'd now!
Bear - I had to get my M-14 and M-1 fixes by buying them! We used M-1's for parades when I was a midshipman, but the barrels were welded shut and most people in that era had no clue how to clean one. They now use real M-14's and clean them. (M-16's for training.)
Cecil - of course, I will agree, the Marines have the best uniforms!!!
Comment by: PVB | August 8, 2011
So Bear, were you USN? And I am guessing a Marine.
By the way, have you seen the prices on M-14s or M-1 Garands. Unbelievable. There were times when you couldn't get $100 for them. Now the Marines are bringing back the 14, after they work them over to use for sniping. Semper Fi brother.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
PVB, it's funny you should mention the velcro thing. Just last week we got the news flash that velcro was being phased out, and Army troops would be going back to sewn on patches and insignia. It just goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Personally, though, I'm glad I was long retired when they went into that velcro thing. To me the patches and insignia never looked quite right when they were stuck on with velcro, and they just seemed so damned temporary..... Also, I think it was part of the same newsflash that announced that the black beret was no longer to be worn with the ACU. The standard headgear will, once again, be the patrol cap. One more time: The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Comment by: canovack | August 8, 2011
Now Colonel, if they would just bring back the Army OD green and the Ike jackets, I would be a happy person. LOL Man am I old and resistant to change.
By the way sir, what did you teach after you retired?
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
Canovack - you're right- the more things change... On the other hand, sometimes, the only constant is change. With regard to changing uniforms though, The Corps is relatively unflinching. The utilities are different of course, and aside from the weight of the wool, the uniforms my father wore are identical to what I wore, and Marines still wear. Khaki service uniforms were replaced with all-season green probably shortly after Vietnam, and the dress white coat was eliminated from the officers' seabag around 2000.
I never liked the Velcro either, but being a Marine, I never saw a need for all the patches and tabs in the first place! ;) Sewn on is definitely much better.
I will say I like the digital camo, and Ace Case usually has a good selection of well made, inexpensive, Made in U.S.A. gun rugs and bags in digital (as well as regular) camo. They always seem to be able to suck some money out of my pocket at the gun shows!
While we're on the subject of patches, it's always bothered me that the Army chose to display the flag with the field backwards in modern times. (My theory is some S-4 ordered the wrong NSN and got a flag designed for vertical display on a flight suit pocket or something, and when confronted with hundreds of the "wrong" flag, convinced the colonel that it's the way it looks when it flies during battle.) If that's not enough, they even place it below the division patch - I always thought you never subordinate the American flag! I've always wondered how they reconcile all of that with proper flag display according to the U.S. Code.... Anyway, perhaps some of my better educated Army friends hereon can enlighten me!
Cecil - I was USMC upon commission from the naval counterpart to your alma mater.
Comment by: PVB | August 8, 2011
Very cool Sir. I graduated in 1966. I am in awe of Marines.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
Cecil S No sir I wasn't in the Navy or Marines, Here is the story of how I became Army. Being 17 when I wanted to join the and serve my country becaus being poor folks I couldn't work and keep my grades up like I wanted so decided to join up, since my dad Adopted dad had been in the Navy in Korea I wanted to follow his footsteps, but the Navy recruter messed up on being able to join up with parents permision at 17, so Knowing that Dad would kill me on the spot if I went to the Marine recruter I went to the Army and just after Mom and Dad finished the papers and I shock hands and gave my word to the Army recruter here comes the Navy guy and says he was wrong and if I wanted I could join the Navy. I could see Dads face when I told Him that he was to late because I had already shock the hand and gave my word to the Army. Dad had a real funny look on his face, and told me that he was proud of me, because as much as he wanted at least one of his sons to go Navy when I had give my word and shock hands on something I stood by it, and he told me that I was right about not joining the Marines, and I remember his words just like he said them " Son if you would have joined the Marines and became one of those Sea Going Bell Hopes I would have killed Ya" Well as it turn Out he had all four of us boys go into the Army. But I have had some Marines tell me that I am one at heart. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out Of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 8, 2011
Also I had to write home and it went kinda this way, Dear Ma, last week I could Not even spill Combat Ingineer now I are One. combanation Tunnel Rat and Sniper when I wasn't blowing somthin all to hell and gone. or building Fire Bases and roads.
Comment by: bear1 | August 8, 2011
Well bear sir, you did your folks and America proud. My Dad was navy in WWII, then went to the AF. Tunnel Rat and Sniper are things to tell your kids about. What balls that takes. And blowing shit up, now that's something everyone needs to know how to do. The combat engineers are paying a heavy price in those shitholes that out troops are fighting in now.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 8, 2011
Thank You sir, lost Dad in 1996 and sure do miss him, for an old growch you could always ask him anything and if he didn't kown the anser he would help by helping you look it up and learn about it along with you. We just lost Mom Sat. night, and I know we are going to sure miss her too. They raised four strappin sons and a gift from god, a Down Syndrom daughter Our little sister. Maybe we where poor money wise but rich in Gods Gifts.
Comment by: bear1 | August 8, 2011
Bear, I am truly sorry about your Parents. I moved from Houston to San Antonio in 2003 to care for mine. My Dad died in 2007 but I am keeping my Mom alive, she is 88 now. The neighbors have a daughter with San Felipo Syndrome (similar to Downs I think) so I know how hard life can be. I miss my Dad every day. And we were poor but my Dad was a soldier and busted his ass every day for us.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Has anyone been in a military clothing sales store lately, that can tell me how much a pair of combat boots are going for? I just want to know how much the web sites are screwing me cause I don't know if I have enough vaseline on hand.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Combat boots are a lot more expensive than they used to be. I think most of the web sites are charging competitive prices, though "cash sales" would probably be a bit cheaper.
Cecil - did you know Martin Paul when you were at Kings Point?
Comment by: PVB | August 9, 2011
PVB, like you, I have always winced at the appearance of our national flag displayed as a shoulder patch.....BACKWARDS. I also agree that no other patch or insignia should be displayed above the flag patch. One would have thought that somebody in the Army Institute of Heraldry would have picked up on that, but alas..... it may well have been a case of money spent for the wrong thing. It still doesn't alleviate my displeasure with having the flag patch under another patch.
Since I retired in 1984, and took up a permanent residence in the home that I now inhabit, I have flown the flag on a ground based flag pole 24/7/365. I have installed flood lights to keep the flag illuminated at night, so my flag is always out there waving and shining for all to see. A flag displayed in that manner wears out pretty quickly, so as soon as mine gets faded and tattered, I replace it from a stack of flags that I keep on hand.
Cecil, when I graduated from college back in 1963, I had a teaching certificate and bachelors' degree. I never used the teaching certificate, because I immediately went on active duty with the Army through commissioning in ROTC. When I went Regular Army, I stayed on for 21 years. Upon retirement, I figured I could renew the teaching certificate, and as Providence would have it, the state of Texas provided me with a life time Texas certificate after completing one course in Texas History/Government. I taught 7th grade science for 22 years, and later in my career I was also a grade level administrator.
Comment by: canovack | August 9, 2011
Wow Colonel, you just continue to impress me. One of my KP classmates is an 8th grade math teacher in Baton Rouge and loves it.
PVB, sorry, I did not know Martin Paul. But then I am getting so old that I don't even remember guys in my own class.
Bought a cheap rifle scope that arrived yesterday. $30 and it seems to be fairly well made. I keep a couple of extras around just in case. DVOR.com that is hooked up with opticsplanet.com tries to sell me something every day. I bought a kick ass Army camo backpack a few months back for $50 and it is one of the best things I have ever bought on line. the absolute best thing was the Ron Popiel Showtime Rotissire (sp?) BEST thing I ever bought and if you can't cook with it, you should quit trying cause it is "idiot proof" which is just what I needed.
Stay cool today.
Cecil
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Canovack - I thought you would be able to shed some light on the issue! Drats!! ;) The SgtMaj of the Army must have been asleep at the helm when that one got through...
Comment by: PVB | August 9, 2011
wheather report from south-central, at the base of the highest point on the lower 48, Ca.at 1200 hrs. the temp is 104.8 wind speed is 0 humidity is 16% presure is 29.72 with fallinf tendency.
Cecil, check out sportsmans guide the have boots that aren't to pricy and not bad for wear. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keepinf to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 9, 2011
Was 103 here yeasterday. I am ready for winter.
Thanks bear, I will check that site. I just feel really stupid ordering shoes without trying them on.
Oh, yeah. Screw the UN.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Hey Guys, I have to second the recommendation from bear1. The Sportsman's Guide has all sorts of stuff, and it's usually pretty good quality and fairly priced. You can go to www.sportsmansguide.com and do all the shopping you need or want to do.
Along that same line, Cecil, since you live in San Antonio, there should be a fairly good bunch of milsurp stores around you. We have a lot here in Killeen, too, and a few months back one of my sons buzzed through and picked up a pair of combination nylon/leather boots that fit him quite well. He continues to be satisfied with them, and I think they were around $60.00.
Talk to any middle school teacher, active or retired, and they will tell you some of the most amazing and often humorous stories about the stuff that goes on in grades 7 and 8. Those age groups are pivotal in the development of what will be adults in a few years. It takes a certain kind of person to keep their sanity and sense of humor with the "hormonally handicapped", but the rewards of being successful with them are enormous.
Comment by: canovack | August 9, 2011
update on temp at 1347 hrs. it is now 110.9 degress here and rising. Gentelmen it's going to get a bit on the warm side I am afeared. starting to think of doing a bbq with out wood or charcoal. just heard a roadrunner run across the dirt road yelling ooo ouch hot hot and jumped in the creek to cool off.
Comment by: bear1 | August 9, 2011
Canovack - I can relate to the rewards and importance of working with the early teen years. In addition to having been an assistant scoutmaster, my current employee "demographic" is teenagers looking for their first job, and nearly all of them are girls. It'll keep you on your toes, that's for sure!
Ditto on The Sportsmen's Guide; however, being one with wide feet, I'm a Danner whore, and Danners are hard to find at a deep discount, especially in wide sizes. Danner quality is tough to beat though.
Comment by: PVB | August 9, 2011
Thanks for the boot info guys. I need to get out more and look for a milsurp store here. I think they are on the South Side, which means carrying a BIG gun. I
It has been so hot here this year that the flies have even died trying to lay eggs in the dog shit.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Since I have finally found a chat room with some people that have a whole lot of smarts, I am curious about your take on this horseshit going on in England, namely the riots. They are saying on the news that it is not a race thing (although I sure see a lot of black and Arab faces in those crowds) but rather it is because of economic woes. So, I guess my question is, are we next?
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
Cecil - a few days ago, I read that the original impetus for the rioting was a police shooting in a minority neighborhood. Subsequently, every ne'er-do-well has used it as an excuse to be, well, a douche. It sounds a lot like Rodney King to me, but I'll admit I haven't followed it that closely.
For those of you in sunny Texas, I got an e-mail that showed how hot it has been down there. The "author" said they were waiting on the ice cream truck, and when it didn't show up, they walked around the neighborhood until they found it. The attached photo showed what looked like a "melted" ice cream truck, though of course it was special effects...
Comment by: PVB | August 9, 2011
I think the ice cream trucks have just about given up here. They can't keep it cold enough.
As for the Brit thing, first report wast that the perp shot at the police, bad move, now they say perhaps not BUT, he did have a gun. And in the U. K. that is a big deal. When I was in Diego Garcia in 84, we had to go over to the range once a quarter and shoot. They Brits, who own the island and lease it to us, wouldn't let the U. S. Navy bring the weapons to the range in the same truck with the ammo. So, I think it is just an excuse for the minorities to burn and pillage. And they obviously watched the L.A. riots cause they are stealing TV sets. LOL.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
From what I got from Fox cable News, is it started out because a cop shot a drug dealer witch is odd because most cops over there aren't many that carry guns, only swat type teams, the Bobbies are unarmed. But the Rioters have changed it around for everything they can tink of including money problems, but of corse the blacks and islamic crowd are fueling the fire big time by the looks of it. As far as I can see it will be over here before long if we don't get this bunch of money spenders out of office real soon, and it will be worse because there ain't going to be food in the stores and the city slickers are going to head out looking for it and try to take it from those that are ready for hard times, and they are going to try to take by force. But I got a surprise for them when they come my direction. The little woman says nobody had better mess with her kitchen or pantry, and I petty the fool that does.
Comment by: bear1 | August 9, 2011
From what I learned from my Brit friends when I was working, more police in the U. K. are now carrying firearms, mostly brought on in the past 20 years by drug dealers (mostly black) that were packing. And they do use their SWAT guys a lot when they have info that it might get ugly. They Brits are viewed as pansies but they are not. The guys that were the Queen's Representatives and the Local Gov.t on Diego Garcia were 19 Royal Marines and they were polite but were NOT pussies.
The looters will receive a surprise here too. Wonder if they will be able to digest lead?
Comment by: Cecil B | August 9, 2011
During the Rodney King situation, my unit was ordered to go into LA after about a week of violent nonsense. The National Guard preceded us. Our arrival in LA was supposed to be classified, but it leaked. The LAV's were rolling up I-5, and we were boarding our buses at Camp Pendleton when "the word" came down the riots had ended. The gang-bangers became instantly polite for some reason that morning...
There were two interesting reactions through the process. Predictably, some of our troops were a little antsy about going back into their old hood and possibly having to line up their sights on an old friend or cousin participating in the melee. On the other hand, I had expected a lot of civilian push-back about Marines being sent in. We're all used to the National Guard going in during disasters, but this was extremely different. Everyone was grateful we were lined up and ready to go, and we had a hard time paying for drinks for a good while after!
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
The info I have about this Brit thing pretty much jibes with what you all have posted above. One of the things that is complicating it, and will likely complicate such an uprising in the USA when/if it happens, is the instantaneous communication extant among young, restless, ne'er-do-wells using their smart phones. I personally have very little patience with rioting punks, who use any excuse to go out and destroy things while they are also looting. The Brits should have brought out the water cannons a long time ago, and they should also have mobilized their SAA to go in and herd all of those miscreants into into barbed wire enclosures where they could sort out the hard core assholes from the rest of the assholes.
Comment by: canovack | August 10, 2011
PVB and Colonel, you both make me proud to be an American but you both DO understand that the 3 of us are a dying breed.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
I am with the Col. the only thing I would do different, is I would use that paint dye stuff the us in banks incase of a robbery, that doese was off easy for days in the water cannons just incase some where able to escape the herding into the wired compond. That way you can round them little doggies up latter, as old cowboys say.
God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future.
Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US
Comment by: bear1 | August 10, 2011
Y'all know there's a real easy solution to the flash mob thing - ban cell phones for anyone under 21...
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
PVB, I sympathize with your position, but in reality, the under 21 crowd already has bans on alcoholic beverages, and that doesn't seem to keep them from drinking. Also, we all know the dangers of talking and texting while driving, but look around while you're driving, and you'll see a bunch with phones stuck to their head and/or in their hands so they can text as they drive. Besides, from what we can see in the news reports, there seem to be a fair number of older kids (AKA over 21) who are orchestrating the mayhem. It seems to me that a whole bunch of the punks who are running wild in England are just some gang bangers who were looking for an excuse to be bad. They should be met with unyielding force from the police and from the SAA (The British Special Air Service.....like special ops guys).
When I was a young Army officer in the early 1960s, part of our training was in putting down civil disturbances. I was always very impressed by the "flying V formation" in which the riot control troops took a V formation, in helmets and full protective gear. The rifles had bayonets already fixed and were held at port arms. This formation took methodical half steps advancing into the riot, and at the precise moment they made contact, the rifles where brought to the "en garde" position in unison. All those bayonets coming to bear were really impressive. Now I don't know it that sort of thing works anymore, but a little (or large) show of force might take some of the attitude out of some of those miscreants. We haven't heard anything about law enforcement employing CS to break up the mobs, maybe that might help.
Comment by: canovack | August 10, 2011
Hell, thanks to the ACLU back in the 70's law enforcement isn't even allowed to use dogs for riot control now.
The interesting thing to watch for is that if this spreads to other European countries cause it could very well get to the U. S. Course, we are all armed, unlike the British public.
And how about that chick that got caught with her brothers in Co. today. Check out the fun bags on her. If they don't want to try her, send her to me. I will see to it that she gets to see some old man's wrinkled nuts which would probably be worse than 20 years in prison. LOL
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
Canovack - I agree with you. I was being sarcastic - sorry! The restrictions won't help; however, I plan to use that argument when I am around an anti-gunner, because they are sure to say that wouldn't be right, queuing up a perfect illustration of hoplophobic hypocrisy...
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
Cecil - resist the urge Sir! She is no doubt a siren that will crash you on the rocks and send you to Hell!! A Marine buddy used to say "no matter how hot they are, somebody is dying to get away..."
Flash mob violence has been a bit of a problem in Philly lately, and the po-po and mayor have been going around getting all of the local businesses to help by networking their security cameras. It sounds like a great idea right now, but it causes me to reflect on the Patriot Act.
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
I must own up to an error in one of my posts, above..... Actually my wife caught it, but I must point out that when I made reference to the British SAA, I should have made reference to the British SAS.....Special Air Service. The SAS is made up of some pretty badass guys who were brought to light in a 1980s era movie called "The Final Option". It was a great movie, and as I look back to some of my associations with the Brits back in my active duty days, the SAS really was a pretty elite bunch of guys. Hell.....As old as I'm getting now, they may not even have an SAS anymore.....
Hey Cecil, you can't possibly be that hard up can you?
Comment by: canovack | August 10, 2011
They still had an SAS when the Brits were kicking the shit out of Argentina. In fact, they put a bunch of them ashore IN Argentina and they blew up some of the planes, on the ground that had Exocet missels on them. They really are pretty bad ass, just like our Special Ops guys are. I think the Brits however; are a little less concerned with PC than our politicians are.
As for the chick in Co., hell I haven't had any in so long I can shoot pool with a rope.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
Cecil - you're crackin' me up!
Yes, the SAS is bad ass and has been since their inception. The Brits certainly have their faults, but the SAS isn't one of them.
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
If the SAS are anything like some of those Ausi sp op guys I met in Nam, they got my total respect. Those guy where kinda crazy but thats what they said I was when they found out I was a Tunnel Rat, one said I must really have a pair bigger than a water buffelo's. All I could say was look who's talkin, and talk about the laghter and they just broke out another Ausi Beer and handed it to me. Or maybe let the Turk sp ops have at them, if they draw that pig sticker of theirs even to sharpen it they have to draw blood. I can't even tell ya'll what they broke out to drink. God Bless America and Our Troops Past Present and Future. Keeping to My Oath Locked Loaded and Keeping My Powder Dry. Get the US Out of the UN and the UN Out of the US.
Comment by: bear1 | August 10, 2011
When the Aussies showed up in Baidoa, we were allowed to begin retrograde to Mogadishu so we could get the Hell out of the God forsaken land of spitting cobras and future pirates. I'll always be grateful!
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
There a lot of bad ass groups out there but have you noticed that most of them are not from 3rd world countries. The ROC guys are pretty mean and the French Foreign Leigon has a lot of my respect. And OUR guys are the leaders of the pack.
A funny story though. When the Brits and Argentenians were having their skirmish, WE were providing satellite intel to the Brits on Arg. ship movements. They actually did have an aircraft carrier that the Red Sea Pedestrians I worked for at the time actually sold to them. Anyway, after the war was over and we showed those Ginneys in the Argentian Army the photos and told them how we got them, they shit their pants. They had NO idea that we could track all their stuff from a satellite.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
Cecil - if ROC is ROK/Republic of Korea, they are some tough SOB's! They used to do an exercise we called Korean jumping jacks - google doesn't do it justice - that absolutely killed your legs. We could do about 15 reps before we'd had enough, and they used to do these things alllllll damned day, with their rifles at high port... Good story about Argentina. The Falklands campaign makes for a great battle study and reflects very well on the Royal Marines 42 Commando.
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
i always joked and said what made the S. Koreans such good fighters is that they were told if they didn't kick some ass, they would have to eat twice as much Kimchee for dinner.
I was in Korea in 63 and the young lady I was hooked up with gave me a bite and it would make a Mexican crap himself. Hottest stuff I ever put in my mouth that didn't have hair on it.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
Kimchee smells almost as bad as reefer! As for those Korean women; that's a whole 'nother story...
Comment by: PVB | August 10, 2011
Oh yeah. Many fond memories.
Comment by: Cecil B | August 10, 2011
unbezwinglich starken und zähen Manns-Charakter der grossen deutschen aber durchaus verabscheut und sogar versucht habe, seine Mitverschwornen a) Becquerelstrahlen.
Comment by: abendkleid 42 | March 2, 2012
unbezwinglich starken und zähen Manns-Charakter der grossen deutschen aber durchaus verabscheut und sogar versucht habe, seine Mitverschwornen a) Becquerelstrahlen.
Comment by: abendkleid 42 | March 2, 2012
Ya.....Sig Heil!
Comment by: canovack | March 3, 2012
An Important Note for GunReports.Com Readers:
Our goal on this website is to foster a free expression of views while reining in language that crosses the line of civil discourse. Accordingly, the comments areas are intended to expand the knowledge of all users of this site. But site administrators wish to discourage the use of profanity, insults, disrespect, the advocacy of lawlessness, violence or sedition, or attempts to impinge on the rights of others.
While GunReports.Com GunReports.Com’s
--Tim Cole
To post a comment you must be a registered user of gunreports.com and be logged in. Use one of the forms below to login or register for FREE to gunreports.com
